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Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante"

04-07-2017 , 12:04 PM
I suggest that the current ante system should be replaced with one where there is only one ante - worth one big blind and posted by the dealer.

BENEFITS:
Lower denomination chips can be replaced much earlier.
No more waiting for everyone to ante up.
Much easier to calculate how much is in the pot.
The presence of short-stacks requires more skill.

DISADVANTAGE:
Players moved from another table would have an even greater incentive to wait for the blinds to pass before they sit down. They could either be forced to wait until their big blind, or else some sort of blind posting could be required.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 12:57 PM
Why not just have one player post the antes for everybody? Why does the ante amount have to be reduced to the amount of the big blind?
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenglass
I suggest that the current ante system should be replaced with one where there is only one ante - worth one big blind and posted by the dealer.

BENEFITS:
Lower denomination chips can be replaced much earlier.
No more waiting for everyone to ante up.
Much easier to calculate how much is in the pot.
The presence of short-stacks requires more skill.

DISADVANTAGE:
Players moved from another table would have an even greater incentive to wait for the blinds to pass before they sit down. They could either be forced to wait until their big blind, or else some sort of blind posting could be required.
Disadvantage: requires you adopt Forward Moving Button rule rather than Dead button rule (this would not be a disadvantage in stud games). If you think antes slow the game down wait until you try to explain to players how this works....

Disadvantage: By having a set amount for the ante (as opposed to a per player ante) pot odds will be skewed as the number of players at the table varies.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 03:02 PM
Advantages:

1. In major/most tourneys chip ups happen at each break. Cant make it any quicker.

2. Only real advantage. Though not much time saved...maybe 5 seconds on average (if as Psand says you dont burn all the time explaining the procedure)

3. Not much easier...especially when some hands have 2 BB or 2 SB and some dont.

4. Its not more skill IMO just different...and less so in bigger $ tourneys.

The penalty for "dodging blinds" is already very steep, its a huge risk with minimal reward to be worried about (more so than now that is)

Its an interesting idea and one thats getting more and more thought over the years, but I absolutely loath the forward moving button so Ill never vote for it (making it UTG however fixes that problem)
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Last edited by DetroitJunkie; 04-07-2017 at 03:08 PM.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitJunkie
Advantages:

1. In major/most tourneys chip ups happen at each break. Cant make it any quicker.

2. Only real advantage. Though not much time saved...maybe 5 seconds on average (if as Psand says you dont burn all the time explaining the procedure)

3. Not much easier...especially when some hands have 2 BB or 2 SB and some dont.

4. Its not more skill IMO just different...and less so in bigger $ tourneys.

The penalty for "dodging blinds" is already very steep, its a huge risk with minimal reward to be worried about (more so than now that is)

Its an interesting idea and one thats getting more and more thought over the years, but I absolutely loath the forward moving button so Ill never vote for it (making it UTG however fixes that problem)
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Making it under the gun has its own problems.

SB in seat 3, BB in seat 4, seat 5 empty, Antes posted in seat 6. Now new player or a moved player sits in seat 5.... seat 6 is utg again. Or seat seat 6 busts out and now seat 7 is bb and never posted ante.

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Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 03:33 PM
Do we really NEED antes in flop games?
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
Making it under the gun has its own problems.

SB in seat 3, BB in seat 4, seat 5 empty, Antes posted in seat 6. Now new player or a moved player sits in seat 5.... seat 6 is utg again. Or seat seat 6 busts out and now seat 7 is bb and never posted ante.

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True. I just wanted to find a way to never have FMB. But this issue is big too. (Maybe have a "post ante" button that always advances and has no ties to where "dealer" button is? - not that Im trying to progress this into happening because I dont really like it much.)

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Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny
Do we really NEED antes in flop games?
Tournaments

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Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitJunkie
2. Only real advantage. Though not much time saved...maybe 5 seconds on average (if as Psand says you dont burn all the time explaining the procedure)
I think it's much more than 5 seconds per hand to deal with antes. The dealer needs to give change to a couple of people per hand (1 second?), has to ask someone to split a larger chip every round or two (2?), has to count up all the small chips each time someone asks for a count (0.5?). Not to mention the bulk of the time involved in looking around the table and collecting the antes - about a half a second per person I'd say.

How many seconds would need to be saved to make it a valid alternative? Maybe the data is already out there - does anyone have the data on how many hands per hour are completed pre and post antes?

If we are saving 10 seconds per hand that's an extra 10% hands per hour, at an average of 36 hands per hour. I think that's a pretty decent improvement.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisRuptive1
Why not just have one player post the antes for everybody? Why does the ante amount have to be reduced to the amount of the big blind?
You'd still need the smaller denominations for that.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisRuptive1
Why not just have one player post the antes for everybody? Why does the ante amount have to be reduced to the amount of the big blind?
Also this means players are not having to post an equal amount each round as the number of players will vary

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Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenglass
I think it's much more than 5 seconds per hand to deal with antes. The dealer needs to give change to a couple of people per hand (1 second?), has to ask someone to split a larger chip every round or two (2?), has to count up all the small chips each time someone asks for a count (0.5?). Not to mention the bulk of the time involved in looking around the table and collecting the antes - about a half a second per person I'd say.

How many seconds would need to be saved to make it a valid alternative? Maybe the data is already out there - does anyone have the data on how many hands per hour are completed pre and post antes?

If we are saving 10 seconds per hand that's an extra 10% hands per hour, at an average of 36 hands per hour. I think that's a pretty decent improvement.
10 % better only in a dream. It doesnt even take 10 seconds to collect the antes 80% of the time or more. Most players are aware most of the time.
The amount of time it takes to collect blinds is dealer and player dependant and that dictates the amount of time saved to switching to your model.

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Last edited by DetroitJunkie; 04-07-2017 at 04:44 PM.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 05:30 PM
Just need to put more small chips into play. People also need to be aware they are going to need small chips for antes and use the "working" chips for bets. Perhaps a warning for calling a $400 bet with $25 chips when you have $100 and $500 chips.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny
Do we really NEED antes in flop games?
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
Tournaments
I know. But ok, I'll be more clear:

Do we really NEED antes in flop tournaments?
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny
I know. But ok, I'll be more clear:

Do we really NEED antes in flop tournaments?
I think they are useful for some tournaments. It can make tweaking the structure easier.

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Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-07-2017 , 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny
I know. But ok, I'll be more clear:

Do we really NEED antes in flop tournaments?
The short answer is yes.

The longer answer is if it is a small tournament (or not so small) with rapidly increasing blinds antes are not needed. If it is going to be a "good" tournament structure, they are needed. I have been out of this business for quite a while, but if you remember when I introduced a Friday night tournament that our players loved, one of the features were antes that allowed me to structure smoother increases than what was typical in that market prior to that.
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote
04-08-2017 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenglass
I suggest that the current ante system should be replaced with one where there is only one ante - worth one big blind and posted by the dealer.

BENEFITS:
Much easier to calculate how much is in the pot.
The presence of short-stacks requires more skill.
Really? You have enough skill to take advantage of short stacks but not enough to count antes?
Replacing the ante system with a "dealer ante" Quote

      
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