1. The more hands you get out, the more $$$ you make. <--- LDO, yet some dealers completely drag through their downs/shifts/collecting time/filling their racks/etc and it's a lose lose for everyone...

2. At lower stakes, the players seem to enjoy your conversation, camaraderie and strict rules enforcement quite a bit. You are dealing to the true recreational players in these games (mainly because making a living/crushing isn't even really possible given the stakes and rake)...

The higher the stakes you deal though, players want all that stuff less and less. Stress rises to unhealthy levels and blood boils in bigger games--> players react very poorly when dealers get too involved in conversations or when they are rules sticklers (especially when either of those things slow the game down or make it hard to focus). All higher stakes players (pros, recs, whales, etc) generally prefer a quiet, lenient (wrt late straddles and such) and FAST/EFFICIENT dealer over anything else. The money being exchanged is just too serious for it to be any other way...

Yes, high stakes players are often pompous, entitled, annoying little bitches (you might even think this OP is all those things ). Accommodating that/them by dealing faster and quieter does not mean you are weak though. It just means you know how to hustle/handle your customers. Win win imo...

If you want poker to be completely impersonal, play online. Dealers are human beings and you can't expect them not to talk to players.


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I'm not a nosebleed player--highest I play is 5/5 PLO and 20/40 LHE (and usually it's lower)--but I've heard that the tips in nosebleed games are usually terrible, which doesn't make up for the players being "bitches," as DGAF put it. So I wouldn't blame a dealer for treating a game with low/no tips coming like a dead spread when it comes to dealing speed.

My post was a PSA. I do play in big games and I'm giving an objective take as to how dealers can increase job satisfaction/earnings (yes, it benefits me as well if hands are dealt faster and there is less friction/more harmony at the table, but that doesn't mean it's not very beneficial for dealers to a) take in what I'm saying, b) try to not be reactive or emotional while processing the info, and c) use the information to make their jobs better- even if that means just understanding the difference between big games and other games but making no changes in what they do).

I'm not justifying players' behavior, just calling it as it is from the other side... And no, dealers don't make "terrible" tips in big games. Maybe in relation to pot size one might think they make terrible tips, but in terms of actual work done, they make on average ~ $2 per hand I'd guess. The ones who come in ready to work and get hands out and let the little harmless things slide and don't talk over the table make signif more than the ones who don't.

Take all ^^^ as you want. Right or wrong, that's just the way things always have been and likely always will be... Wild speculation and emotional, reactive responses seem a bit unnecessary/counter-productive though. I'm not attacking dealers lol. I like a lot of them, I'm friends with some of them, and I know they work long hours and put up with a lot of BS from both players and management. I'm just trying to make things a little better for both sides.

If you want me to allow late straddles talk to my management .... they have made it clear they do not want me to allow it. Guess what ... some guy at your table doesn't like it, and if I let it go he tells them and they don't accept the answer oh well some guy on the internet said it's okay.

Oh as for fills. We have rules about when to get a fill. If I don't get a fill when I'm supposed to ... well the next dealer has to do it and he complains to management that I'm not following the rules. And guess what defense is not acceptable?

I know lots of dealers who are spectacular because they chat a little and are friendly, but deal fast and well. Fast is definitely important to players. But the main point of the OP, I think, is that fast makes more money for dealers too.

DGAF I you my man but this is just gonna fall on deaf ears (blind eyes?) because for the most part people either suck or they don't.

I don't get it, never have. But some folks have work ethic and are able to connect the dots that harder work = more money...and other folks are lazy pos.

I was a server for a year. Tons of servers would hang out in the back, smoke pot, watch sports in the break room. They'd take like 5 tables a night. My friend Rob and I, we'd wait tables like our lives ****ing depended on it. We'd have 5-6 tables at once, each, and we'd treat them like royalty.

We were the only two males that regularly broke 2 benjamins a night (each)

When others started to realize this, did they wait more tables? Did they give better service? NOPE, they complained to management that tips should be pooled.

Long analogy but people gonna people and most people are dumb and lazy and you can't change either trait ime.

The idea of a "PSA" telling dealers how to deal from the perspective of a player is worthwhile if you truly think there's a dealer out there somewhere who hasn't already made up his/her mind about how to deal a game based on past experience. My guess is dealers are going to adjust to the games they deal in based on their experience though, just as anyone else might use their prior experience to shape their decisionmaking in any other endeavor.

Ideally every single person would go to work at whatever job he or she has and give 100% every single day. That's not realistic though. My response was injecting some realism into the "PSA" OP you made by offering the reasons why you might see an otherwise good dealer slow down a bit or otherwise not give his/her best at a high-stakes game. I based my comment on posts I've read from dealers who deal in those games and from in-person comments from dealers who deal in those games.

Maybe a long analogy, but a good one. Pooling just about anything is going to favor the weakest performers in the pool.

I've heard from some bigger players that they want us to enforce the rules so they don't have to be the bad guy. Those games also represent the greatest chance of getting written up or fired so being fast or throwing gaming rules out the window might not be our top priority. We can't really win there, finding the line can be tough.

I'm not sure how we're going to speed up fills or collecting time. Players could definitely help out there by keeping a few smaller chips in their stack and actually posting the first time the dealer asks. Some players just seem to enjoy making us ask 8 times and sit there staring at them.

Also the players in the small games often tell us that it's a small game so we should let the rules go ... rules are for big games. So I guess poker should have no rules since nobody wants them enforced

Not sure about dealers making "$2 a hand on average" in high limit games.

Also, dealers don't request fills for the fun of it.

Where I play there's no tipping allowed, but I've noticed, over the years, that those dealers who are efficient and tuned into game tend to survive---and would appear to enjoy their jobs more than others. So, aside from the financial incentive, the advice offered by DGAF has other benefits (like he says, "it's a win/win"). While I often say to myself at the table "I wish I could tip this guy" at least I can sense the goodwill whenever these dealers are around, regardless of the collective misery that can sometimes permeate any poker room.

Excellent OP and I completely agree. IDK if dealers read this though lol... almost definitely not the ones who could benefit from reading this.

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+1 to OP and at least trying SOMETHING to try and benefit everyone. I'm always a fan of people willing to take any step further than just whining.

Unfortunately I also agree w the other posters about the kind of dealer who sucks at their job is an unlikely candidate to consider what OP is saying, or even ever see this thread.

Not everything is black and white in poker. If the whole table is straddling or maybe the one action guy is straddling every round and he is on the phone or something when the cards are dealt and he tosses out a straddle before he looks at his cards, 85% of dealers will use good judgment/common sense and say, "That's OK?" to the table (it almost always is) and they will allow it and everything is smooth.

15% will not allow the straddle. Of those 15%, maybe 1/3 will be downright combative. And many of them will shriek about "management" or worse, "gaming".

I get it that "management" is in fact responsible for a lot of the friction between higher stakes players and dealers. But "gaming" just never gets called irl for a lot of the silly rules that are enforced by hyper-strict dealers, and yet you hear "gaming" all the time wrt the enforcement of silly rules.

And when a straddle is unallowed, believe it or not, that's enough on it's own sometimes to make a good game not so good (action player gets pissed or something else happens).

Do what you gotta do, but know that when the players are happy the dealers' job satisfaction and earnings only go up.

Fills- I didn't mean to imply "don't do them." I was just trying to point out that some dealers really try to not slow the game down with them AMAP. They call the floor over and exchange lammers or whatever during lulls in action, and they knock out the fill as efficiently as possible. Some dealers otoh show zero interest in being quick or efficient.

If I was a dealer, my only earnings metrics (aside from hourly wage which I assume is pretty flat) would be:

1. How much do I make on average per hand dealt?

2. How many hands do I get out on average per down?

...And I would strive to max out both numbers- even if I thought all the players were annoying, entitled, disgusting, whatever.

And the higher #2 is, the higher #1 will be inherently/without making any other adjustments--> players love fast dealers, and they general reward those they love more than those they do not.

Fair.

But... we all go through life not thinking about others' perspectives enough imo. I think there's a decent chance some dealers just don't realize/have forgotten how vital speed, efficiency, professionalism, and good judgment are to their earnings.

Like it or not, the players are the customers- plain and simple. In any business, those who meet/surpass customer expectations thrive, those who don't barely hang on until the market dies or competition swoops up their customers.

---

A pro I know said he started tipping a dollar even if he just takes down the blinds pre, as he feels like everyone folding pre is deflating for a dealer (who depends very much on tips obv). He took their perspective, made an adjustment (the auto tip) and he said the results were good. I do the same thing now with most dealers- and I play laser fast and win a ton of pots pre, tip bigger when I win bigger, create a good vibe at the table, make games/pots bigger than normal, make them last longer, etc.

All ^^^ makes me a pretty good customer imo, and most dealers realize it and treat me accordingly. Some do not ofc.

I think there is a moderate % of dealers who do not always think of the players as customers, and a large % of dealers who do not discern between their different customers' needs and expectations.

You seem to be justifying poor customer service by saying the customers are too cheap with their tips. Well, the customers are the customers (you can't replace them), might as well earn the maximum for the situation, right? Also, prob best to not punish good customers for some bad experiences with other customers, right?

I don't know how much they make on average in big games but I see red birds fly often, even from pros. I think maybe their expectation is based too much on % of pot? Like a pro wins a 10k pot and tips $5. Is that cheap? Well that pro gets nothing from the dealer when he loses a 10k pot, and overall he still isn't getting rich playing poker/his hourly is still pretty damn moderate, despite the big pot.

Also fair.

But... a good business works around their customers' flaws, they don't just slow down revenue/cut off their nose to spite their face.

Some rules need to be enforced always. Some rules should be bent often.

Common sense/good judgment is huge in properly running a game imo.

I think a decent amount of dealers check out this section of 2p2. There seems to be 2 or 3 itt already. Many dealers are poker players themselves obv.

Anyways, aside from the combined minutes it takes to post, a thread like this is a free roll...

Pros want faster.
Fish want faster.
Drop games want faster.
Time games don't want faster short-term, but they do long-term (wrt customer satisfaction)...

Regardless of all that, dealers should want faster too!

edit: I can tell some posters/dealers are getting defensive. That's understandable. But I am really not trying to attack at all, just point out that our goals should be aligned in having a fast, efficient, fun game.

I appreciate the coments and agree with some of them. Yes players are our customers and should be treated as such. Yes a fast and friendly game is best.

However, each house, each sets of management, and heck each table will be different and to suggest that all games of particular level should be treated a specific way is shortsighted. A good dealer, as stated above, will be able to use experience in determining thr best way to intetact with the players. Dont be of the mindset that your way is the way it should be everywhere because that is not realistic.

Attempting to tell dealers to not follow certain rules because you value yourself over other levels of players is something most dealers, myself included, will laugh at. If the house you play in does this then good for you. I get if a bunch of regs want to play train-wreck poker and all at the table are fine with it then i can understand how a weak floor may allow it.

As for the dealers...those that dont already understand that a quick and friendly game is best and to be effecient in fills and such, and are working on getting better, typically already dont care anymore and will never read this post.

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OP was there a specific incident that prompted your post?

Memo to higher stakes players :

* If you are the worst-paying and most difficult customers in the house, you do not get to complain when better-paying and less difficult customers enjoy a smoother and faster game experience than you do. Perhaps you should modify your behavior, and see what the market produces.

* If you don't want house rules enforced in your game, please discuss this with management. Do not ask the dealing staff to risk their jobs and/or licenses by ignoring house rules on your table. And this is especially true if you are high-limit shot-taker who thinks that "playing for significant stakes" means that you get special leeway to cheat.

q/q