And just think, all that could have been avoided if only the first dealer, or the second, or the third, etc. had told him that he couldn't play out of a rack, instead of leaving it to the one who did.

How about just telling him that at least the table min has to be out of the rack as a courtesy to the other players ... with the understanding that all the chips are in play? GL

I'm in favor of telling him whatever the rule of the room is.

In my experience, some don't allow racks at all, some only in your last orbit, some allow if you have a working stack, and some anything goes.

Could you kindly provide us with a list of the rules that we shouldn;t enforce....

or is it just something that you will determine after the fact if teh guy who was losing a lot leaves....

And you are just wrong about about high stakes players not complaining about things like late straddles..... Yes they are less likely to say something at the table .... but that doesn't mean they aren't complaining to management away from the table.

I think we are missing some necessary information.

If borg is saying donk should be allowed to continue playing out of the rack, I would disagree. But, I suspect there is more to it. Maybe it is how the dealer reacted (which we don't have) to how the donk reacted to being told to take it out of the rack.

Most dealers probably don't have to be told this, but I can picture with some less socially helpful dealers it going like this:

Dealer: You can't play with the chips in a rack. You'll have to take them out of the rack.

Donk: What? I've been playing like this all night. (Now, let's say Donk's got a tone, like WHAT? I've been doing this all night. I should be able to continue.)

Here's where the problem can arise. Dealer should say nicely, I'm sorry, but those are the rules here. I'm not going to comment on what you did before I got to the table, but I have to enforce the rules. That is called, for future reference, response (2)(b).

What if, instead, it goes...

Dealer: You can't play with the chips in a rack. You'll have to take them out of the rack. (This is called response (2)(a), for future reference.)

Notice how Dealer can repeat exactly the same thing, like the Donk didn't hear him, or more accurately, like the Dealer doesn't give a **** what Donk thinks, and because of Donk's bad attitude, Dealer is going to **** with Donk a little by ingoring everything Donk said and just repeating himself. Dealer can get away with it, because in any future retelling, the words said by Dealer are just fine. But anyone present can tell that Dealer is ****ing with Donk. Continuing...

Now Donk starts to get mad.

Donk: Bull****. This is the way I've been doing it. Ask everyone...

It goes downhill from there, but the starting point was

(1) Donk having a slight attitude while still saying reasonable words, which could have easily been de-escalated by Dealer.
(2)(a) Dealer subtly crosses the line, baiting Donk.
(3) Donk goes over the line.

I guess all I'm saying is that good dealers see (1) and work to de-escalate as I described above in (2)(b), or similar, rather than (2)(a).

I don;t disagree with the substance of this. Dealers should be polite when the enforce rules and should try to de-escalate it when the player trys to fight.

But the post I responded to was not talking about that. borg23 was very explicit that he felt the rule should not have been enforced. So even if the dealer was rude or escalated the situation borg23 doesn;t think the solution is the dealer should have taken a different tac in addressing the problem ... he thinks the mere enforcement of a rule is out of line.

Where are the profitable regs stepping in to let the whale know it's not a big deal and that no one gets to play with racks and that the dealer is just doing their job?

and they wouldn't see it as an incentive to deal quicker?

Agreed Reid. A lot of us do that. Pretty positive OP included.

This is a great point. there are too many horrible dealers that think just by taking up space in the box they deserve to have people throw money at them.

It is important that players properly consider how to best inform management of a dealer who isn't performing up to standard. It's too easy to simply complain and make blanket statements like "this dealer is too slow" and "this dealer isn't paying attention". Generally, I've found that considered and sympathetic criticism, quietly passed onto floor staff, particularly to those who are in the mood to listen, can actually make a difference, especially if one phrases the criticism in such a way so as to make it clear that both the casino AND players will benefit (i.e., more hands/better game). In the end, players, more so than managers, are witnessing how dealers perform, and this is why it's crucial for them to be seen as "constructive" critics rather than "whinging" gamblers. Too often, players shoot themselves in the foot---divest themselves of authority---by not fully thinking through what they are going to say before they say it!

While there's much truth to what you you're saying, floors too often are not the ones to speak to. Too many of them have little or no dealing experience and in many places nowadays are nothing more than glorified brushes.

Say it to a shift manager.

I wasn't really making a clear distinction between floor staff and shift managers, but it can be significant, as you suggest. Where I play, many of the floor are ex-dealers, some of whom were very good or still deal occasionally, so they're receptive to constructive feedback. I guess what you're suggesting is that players should carefully consider who they'll complain to, as much as how they're going to phrase the complaint---a suggestion that makes a great deal of sense. In general, I'm trying to encourage players not to take a "road-rage" approach to this delicate area of poker-room life---a social fundamental, sure enough, but one that needs to be reiterated, since floor staff or shift managers, in my experience, will reject any feedback that is emotive, and pretty much block perceived "road-ragers" from any further discussion (I've road-raged it a few times myself, I'll admit, and effectively can't engage with some staff for this reason).

How would a dealer know if they're horrible or not?

So everyone just goes about their business thinking they're amazing at everything in your world?

First of all - there's a very broad spectrum of options between "amazing" and "horrible".

Secondly - you'd be amazed (see what I did there?) at how bad people are at making honest self-assessments.

Do you know how many people think they're good drivers?

Bad driving is a leading cause of death for males 18 to 35 and not one of them think they are bad drivers...even if you can prove it they will deny

A lot of dealers are the same
Sent from my LGMS330 using Tapatalk

Only if I'm oblivious to it. 80%+ of the time I'll see it happen but always better when a player mentions the button has been moved verbally.


Players tend to remember where buttons are hand to hand more than dealers do because hands run together for us and we're more concerned about running the overall game. However, players tend to remember if they were button the previous hand or if they posted the BB the previous hand. Dealers just move the button one spot once a hand is completed. It is frustrating when it gets moved and I miss it [Pushing the pot on the other side the table is the most common] and it gets moved twice. A rare occurrence but it has happened to me.








In tournaments, absolute, always pull in the bets. For live, kinda depends. I don't mind going ahead and putting out the next card[s] before collecting the bets. Especially if it's a split game since you then have a bit more time to collect the chips and keep them stacked without really wasting the player's time. If I gotta give out change at the end of the round, I'd rather just go ahead and pull the money in. Would rather not be making change while there is action on the next street.