I play 2-3 times a week, my wife accompanies me a couple times a month. I was looking for your opinions on what is collusion and what isn't in regards to how I act in regards to her being in the game. We play 1/2 NL as it is the only game within 3 hours.

1. When it is just me and her in a hand, we check it down. No reason to give the house a higher rake, right?

2. We don't send one another info continuously, but occasionally (about every 2-3 hours) we will take a short walk together and talk about things we've noticed about other players (tells, bet sizing tendencies, etc.).

3. I won't bluff out of position when she's in to avoid pushing her off of a hand.

4. I try to sit with position on her to avoid #3 occurring.

5. We don't acknowledge that we know each other, as some a-holes will make baseless accusations out of frustrations, but we don't hide the fact. A couple regulars are aware.

If you're always checking it down HU then they know you're together.

Not playing your A game when she's in multi-way is a bad thing.

I play with my wife occasionally as well. FWIW, we play hard against each other for a few reasons. One, it's fun, and the table gets a kick out of it. It makes a good environment for all. Two, it removes any possible thoughts of collusion.

For your specific questions...

#1 is light collusion. It's an advantage for you two to check it down, with no further risk to your stacks.

#2 imo is totally cool.

#3 is collusion and unfair to other players in the hand.

#4 irrelevant

#5 not collusion if you don't do the other things, but particularly if you are playing soft against each other this comes out pretty quickly. Might as well get it out there and set up a fun environment.

My $0.02 is try one session where you announce your relationship and the intent to stack each other. Play hard against each other and trash talk as well. See how it opens up the game such that you can both make more money. If you don't share finances, split up the money after the fact and away from the table.

When you are in multiway pots and you make an action to gain a net benefit for you two then it's collusion. If you're heads up you can do whatever you want and it isn't colluding in any way if it's a cashgame, tourneys are different.

I'd also not just check it down heads up because it is so totally obvious, just have one checkfold to a bet and you don't pay any rake either. Both hands go into the muck and nobody will ever know.

casino or charity room ... Could be a big difference in the minds of the 'regs'.

I have run across plenty of these spots and never really had an issue with them. If anything it can hurt the table a little bit since if 'the other' raises and gets the other one to fold, then the pot could be smaller. But I don't see this as different as any other 'reg' v 'reg' spot.

The 'best' (at poker) couple that I have to deal with shows more often to make sure the table doesn't suspect anything is going on. Although this will give information to the table it is very effective.

There are some that duke it out right on the table to see who has bragging rights on the way home. Play your games and have fun, don't worry about how the table feels about it or get a table change. GL

Play at different tables if you're unwilling to play straight up.

If there's only one table running, let people know that you play from the same roll so that they know they're up against a team. I'm fine with people playing as a team as long as I know about it; once I know, I can decide whether it's worth me sticking around based on game conditions.

Doesn't matter if it's cashgame or tournament, collusion is collusion. The only difference is that usually nobody cares in a cashgame.

It's hard for some people to understand, but there are situations were softplay hurts the table even if it's heads-up.
Easy example: If your wife is a weak player who always leaves after losing her buy-in, the other players at the table profit from her stacking you because that means you are reloading (= more money on the table) and she now has 200BB to distribute among the other players at the table.

Not to mention the circumstances that lead to the hand being heads-up in the first place.

This is understandable and fairly common. However, the level of collusion depends on how you two get HU. Given your #5 this could look somewhat peculiar if it happens a lot.
This is OK and not collusion per se. I believe this was happening in a 20/40 LHE game I played in and the wife did much better than I would have expected when she was playing at the same table with her husband. When they were separated she did poorly and they ultimately stopped playing at the venue.
I commend you for admitting this and asking for help/opinions. This is blatant collusion and as such is illegal. If you can't stop doing this you should make sure you play at separate tables.
Not good enough. You have to stop doing #3 altogether. edit: even if you sit one seat to the left of your wife there are still the hands where you are in the SB and she is the BTN...
The accusations wouldn't be baseless. And they aren't a-holes. These are just astute opponents who want to play in a fair game. If the way you play with your wife can't stand open scrutiny then the lesson should be to stop playing together. I recommend that you tell people you are married. This allows other people to make an informed decision about whether they want to play in that game or not.

I have played with perhaps 5 couples on a regular basis in both LHE and NL. In one case I believe there was overt cheating going on. In one case I believe nothing was going on. In the other three cases there were a number of indications that they were at the very least subconsciously altering their play to accommodate their spouse. In every case but one there were complaints from regulars about collusion. In three of the cases (not the overt cheating case!!!) the wives and husbands were forced to play separately unless there was only one table going. In the case where they were not separated it was because the wife was terrible and a donator to the game.

I would highly recommend not playing at the same table as your wife. Meet with her periodically. Help her with the players at her table. But unless you can play against your wife like you would against any other player it makes it unfair for the other players. Especially if they don't know your relationship. And even if you think you are playing the same (including not checking it down) you may be doing subtle subconscious things to benefit both of you collectively...

^^^This FTW!

I play with my wife a few times a week in tournaments. We don't like to be at the same table early if we can avoid it, but if we are then it is game on. Years ago when we first started playing, she took the car and left me at a game for a semi bluff that got there on the river. Nowadays I wont float or isolate her raises very often at all, but that is more because she knows how i play and may play back. She is also the only one i have ever folded KK to preflop, but her being my wife had nothing to do with it other than i knew her well enough to confidently fold.

This is collusion and I wouldn't be happy with it. You are not playing properly cause you know the person.

No.3 is obvious collusion.

I pointed this out in the other collusion thread, but checking it down HU absolutely does change the hand because the caller faces less RIO.

Let's say A and B know they'll check it down if HU, but A, B, and C are in the pot (in that order). A bets, B can call some hands he's not actually justified in calling - either C calls and gives him the right odds or C folds and he and A get the pot.

Now, at 1/2, I lack faith that any of the players, much less all of them, are acting with this much thought, so I don't particularly care. But it is definitely light collusion and not disclosing your relationship is worse than disclosing it unnecessarily

i play with my ex-wife and she always slow roll me, one time i yelled at her, "just open the goddamn card" and floorman gave me 20 minutes out, but she takes care of my kid so i guess that would be ok.

You want to make people suspicious about your play, this is a pretty sure fire way to do it.


--klez

You can talk to each other about other players in secret, about hands you had, etc, even strategy tips as long as it isn't during an ongoing hand. I regularly discuss moron fish at my table with other regs when we don't even know each other's names (quietly so the fish don't hear).

Everything else is collusion, pretending not to know each other is an even bigger issue, because most people that soft play are just harmlessly ignorant it is a problem and don't try to hide it at all. Those A-holes are frustrated because you are in fact cheating.

Play each other hard, you share a bankroll anyway. If the rake from playing each other hard at 1/2 makes a difference, don't play poker, you can't afford it.

1. Softplay, which is technically collusion. However, its super common and I don't feel like it's that big of a deal.

2. This is totally fine, as long as the conversation doesn't stray from observations to collective strategy talk.

3. Collusion, plain and simple. Not acceptable.

4. Sit wherever you want.

5. Their assumptions are far from baseless, from what you've admitted to in your post. As far as not acknowledging you know either other, it's not scummy on it's own, but combined with the softplay and other collusion, it probably looks really scummy to the other players in the game. Telling the table that you are related goes a long way to give the table the image that nothing fishy is going on. You should probably first stop the fishy things going on, though.

I'm a 1/2 NL player and at least sometimes get seated with a buddy at his 'home' casino.


Unless it's a strange room, the rake is probably capped. As mentioned above, if the extra couple bucks makes a difference... maybe a new hobby is in order. If it's an uncapped room, I suppose I could entertain an argument.

I chat about players with a buddy away from the table. In the past, but no longer, we've sent texts AFTER a hand with a big pot, disclosing our hole cards and/or thoughts.


How often do you normally bluff OOP? Does she know? Would she lay down a made hand out of respect? Would it matter if it was you or another player? If she knows, and folds to your OOP bets, it's cheating, she has information that the other player doesn't have (that you are never bluffing).

Also lets you provide 'protection', which better players will use to get your money in light.
As mentioned, there will still be hands where you are IP vs her.

I think it's shady not to let that information out in some manner. I always wonder about the players who just get up and leave together, or when someone else mentions is.
They may or may not be a-holes, and it may or may not be baseless. It doesn't seem much worse than some reg/reg play.

What's wrong with just playing straight up? (Wanting to avoid $2 in rake that one time per night you end up in a big pot together is not a good answer. It's the answer everybody gives, but that doesn't make it a good one.)

My wife and I play together several times per year. We play straight up. The rest of the table gets a charge out of the pretty girl trying to felt me, but it rarely comes up because we're both nits anyway. No one has ever said a negative word to either of us about it, ever.

I often play at the same table as my wife. We almost always play hard against each other, even heads up. The only exception would be heads up if we are on a cruise ship or somewhere with a crazy rake.
We were once playing at Beau Rivage in biloxi and there was a hand where a guy was convinced we were colluding before he folded. I told my wife to show her hand as I showed mine. What we both did was logical so the guy was cool.

I'll never understand the couples checking it down thing but whatever. If it's down to heads up just freaking bet already and let the one with less or best take it. #3 well dug. Going with the yeah we are only here to cheat to a mild degree thing is so insulting. The opponents of couples (well most) come in good faith why does marriage, ah never mind.

Good point.

Operative word here being ex. (lol)


Yeah, what's up with that? First, you say that this is the only card room within 3 hours, then you go on to say that you don't want to bet if it's just you and the wife HU("why give the house the rake?"), but then you go on and on about other areas in the game where you won't do X if she's X and none of it has anything to do with rake, it's just you trying to give your wife the biggest unearned edge she can get, and vice versa. And that's cheating. Again, if you're not going to play at different tables(whether it be because you don't want to or because it's simply not available) then you really should play fairly and let the chips fall where they may.

Your honesty is admirable but now you need to listen to what you're saying and do something about it.

3. I won't bluff out of position when she's in to avoid pushing her off of a hand.

This is about the onlything that I think is a problem. This is pretty straight up collusion.

This is the worst part about your post.

People will figure it out, and they will figure it out a lot quicker than you think. You show up together, admit you take walks together, and will likely leave together. Depending on the size of your room and the demographics, I am fairly certain that anyone who plays with you more than once or twice will know you're a couple.

The accusations won't be baseless. You already admitted you soft play.

You would be better off just owning it, rather than acting shady about it.

You don't have to be a man and wife to be "working together" at a poker table, and that's what you are doing. Mostly it is small stuff, but you know it's still wrong , and if two other guys were doing it you might be even more upset with them. Tell the floor you want different tables and why. Or change your style and try your best to felt each other.

there are no "friends" at a poker table. i would check-raise my grandmother.

if you respect the game, you play it straight-up.