Yeah, dropping the N-bomb is industrial strength stupid. You lose any and all hand in the confrontation with that six-letter word. Seriously, how do you not understand this?

Like others have said, you'd have likely gotten the pot and the pleasure of watching HIM get bounced had you not uttered it.

The attorneys aren't in bed with them. They just imply they are so you'll hire them to spin their wheels "trying" to unban you. The fact is a casino is a private business on private property, if they want to perma-ban you because you spew epithets like an autistic, making other patrons uncomfortable, they can.

Well more like 60/40 with the V saying it first and provoking him.

Where you live do autistic people typically swear a lot? I've known a number of different people with an autism spectrum disorder and none of them do.

Did you mean a person with tourettes?

Contrary to what you may have been told, sticks and stones can break your bones and words can actually hurt you.

Words carry the historical weight of everything that word has been used for. It's far worse for a white person to call a black person a ****** than a black person to call a white person a honkey. It's far worse than a white person calling a Chinese person a chink (which is also racist but lacks the historical context).

It's why nobody in the US but white supremacists name their kids Adolf any more - words carry meaning. Sure, maybe Joseph Stalin was objectively a worse guy, but he actually fought on our side so the US didn't have the history with the USSR. Naming your kid Joseph doesn't have the same specific historical context that naming your kid Adolf does.

Another example, starting a bonfire on a white man's front lawn and burning a cross on a black man's front lawn mean very different things. One is an annoyance and probably a misdemeanor. The other carries a very specific meaning.

In this case, the racial slur IS worse than throwing cards (how many of us have had cards thrown at us?). I was perhaps a little unclear, it's worse than any individual thing that the Villain did, but Villain did more things, so let's call it 50/50. Or 50/25+10+5+5+5, if it helps you see.

---

On another note, just so we stop trying to justify OP's behavior based on Villain's, let's imagine a thread where Villain does everything he does and the story stops just before "I snapped and called him a dumb ****ing ******."

What do we want for Villain?

Permaban?

We got it. Villain got what he deserved.

So now, all OP needed to do was hold his tongue for 30 seconds and Villain will be hauled away by security.

I dont think they should let you back in if you're going to thrown N word around. Nobody in casino deserves to be called such things. You could have asked for a table change or called floor over and said he was hurling insults at you.

Don't forget chips too.

Again, the OP is allowed to react by telling the villian off (and even swearing at him). The question becomes can he also sling a racially derogatory term at the villian in the circumstances? Probably not.

However, given the gravity of the offences of both players, I am not quite sure that a permanent banning from the casino for the OP is deserved (and the same applies to the villain as well).

A temporary banning for both players, sure (and the villian for a longer time), but again permanent banning I am not so sure...

A person claimed to be assaulted, it makes some sense. After reading ops response that he declined to press charges I do not think it would have been a better approach and I think just offering to call the police in a situation were there is assault but minimal injury is sufficient.

Would the gaming commission care about the ruling? Isn't cards on the floor an integrity issue or just a house rule that can be ruled over?

you're racist against ceartain racists lol

I don't disagree with this. I also don't disagree that what the OP said was wrong. And I'm not trying to assign portions of blame. But if the word itself is so loaded, why do I hear it on the radio all the time?
/That's it for me here.

So I have zero experience with being permabanned, but I assume that permaban is less "irrevocably and permanently banned" and more "banned until you grovel."

I would let both players back after a week or two with an apologetic letter that accepts responsibility.

Villain would have to grovel harder than OP, but OP's letter would have to be super clear that racial slurs can never be used regardless of provocation.

Both would be made aware that if it happens again, they get permanently permabanned.

When it comes to kicking players players for an incident, it's not a contest. You don't just kick out whoever the bigger jerk is, you kick out anybody who is being a jerk. I don't care what Villain did, the second you throw out a racial slur, you're gone.

Situation should have never gone this far. If OP's description of events is accurate then villains behavior should have been addressed much earlier.

Why would the Floor award the pot to him when his cards were on the floor, which was a result of him throwing them in your face? That doesn't make any sense. His cards were never tabled, he should have a dead hand.

I agree that both of you should've been thrown out right on the spot because once there is an altercation of any kind, you can't just throw out the bigger of the two jerks; for security reasons alone, both parties always get at least a 24 hour time off.

I agree that calling him the N word does nothing to help your case(aside from it being a mean and hurtful slur) but that shouldn't get you a permanent ban from the casino. Perhaps a month or so would be a fair penalty for a first time offender(I, personally would throw you out for life if I knew that you used that slur in the past) but we'll presume that this was your first time offense.

My verdict would be:

Some type of ban for OP(not sure for how long exactly). I hate to use double standards here but calling someone a N is so much worse than honkey. I think we all know the reasons why that is. And I know that you were severely provoked. It just sucks that it came down to that because you could've had yourself a really good case outside the poker room! Now you may have tainted that a bit.

Permanent-ban for villain(assault, racial slurs, and threats). But mainly for assault.

Ship the pot to you, OP. Again, that's just insane that the Floor would rule it any other way. Maybe your next chat should be with the higher-ups and explain how the Floor took your pot away and then banned you for life for "violence." I'm just not ready to let him off the hook on this.

The brother was obviously in the wrong, but so were you. Casinos don't want customers who are dropping N-bombs at the tables. Your ban will not be lifted.

Excuse me. You're absolutely right,tourettes not autism.

No way pot should have been shipped to Villain, crinkling one's cards (destroying them) and throwing them to the floor is mucking them. Horrible decision to award him pot after that.

But more importantly, you called an obviously emotionally heated black man the N-word, just be lucky you didn't end up seriously injured or worse! If you just sit there and smile and let him know his petty words mean nothing to you and are like water off a duck's back, it probably pisses him off even more to your satisfaction, then he leaves and you win the pot. But it was a real bad move stooping to his level and dropping the N-word, and like I said, consider yourself lucky you didn't end up on the wrong side of further escalation like in the parking lot or whatever.

I agree that calling a black person the N word has more weight that calling a white person a honky. In fact, I take no offense at being called names. It was the cards and chips being slung at me that set me off, and my only explanation that I can give to me call him a racial slur was he was calling me racial slurs....I do know it was wrong, and at the time, I was not thinking logically. This is the first time I have ever called a black person the N word.

I agree that we should have both been forced to leave at that moment. I don't think my ban is the correct call. I've been in many casinos and have heard multiple verbal altercations, including other racially slurred arguments that don't always lead to them being walked out. So a permaban for a first time offender that would have never been in this situation if not provoked.

If I were given a 24hr, week, or month long ban, this thread would have never been created.

Yes, it was a CET property. Not that it means anything in this matter, but I am diamond status....

Also, as far as "keeping my mouth shut, I would have won the pot...." I don't think that is the case.

1. At the point of all of this happening, I didn't even know what he had. I assumed I won the pot from his actions, including him "mucking" his cards (throwing them at me).

2. The floor would have been called over regardless because of HIS actions. The first thing the floor asked the dealer is "what happened". When the dealer explained V threw the cards at me, supervisors next question was "where are his cards?"

No, I was never read any trespassing statements, was just told verbally not to come back to that property.

Today I learned that the person who told me to not come back was not a security supervisor/manager. I have an appointment to speak with head of security over the phone tomorrow.

I literally only visit this particular property once a year (this was my 2nd year) so a permaban from this sole property won't really affect me. Obviously if they were to ban me from all CET properties that would be a big deal. However I specifically asked that question to the guy who told me not to come back and he said no, I was not banned from ALL properties. Just that one.

The first couple paragraphs are a bit too precious for me. The guy at that table likely has not been subject to cross burnings in his front yard. It's great that he thinks he can say whatever he wants but then when someone matches his verbal attack everyone loses their minds. That's silly and it shows a serious lack of maturity and perspective on the part of everyone involved.

I don't think anyone is arguing (or could argue reasonably) that OP should have said what he did. I take issue with people saying that what OP did was worse or even really in the same league as what the other guy did. Words are words; the integrity of the game and threats of violence are much more important.

Apocalypse must be coming because I find myself in total agreement here.

-hf

Just an fyi: Everybody is welcome to throw all the chips at me that they like and I will sit there smiling, tia.

That's exactly where you're wrong. The OP didn't "match" the Villain's verbal attack at all. The OP's verbal attack far exceeds the Villain's verbal attack.

Are you kidding? It's actually your attitude which is immature, apparently reducing this to either a straight count of insults or some kind of "he started it" elementary school spat.

When most people grow up, they realize that words carry weight (some with the weight of authority, e.g., people listening to actors and sports stars on political matters; some with the weight of history, e.g., using -gate to define a political scandal; etc.), and that more often than not, you have to end a conflict despite someone else starting it.

Then why do so many African Americans call each other this? Do they not like themselves or just enjoy using the same disgusting oppressive slurs that racist white Americans invented to subjugate them and destroy their dignity with?

By the way, at some point gambling becomes a street thing, no matter what the Magik the Gathering set seems to think.

I agree wholeheartedly that the N word carries far more baggage than the H word does. And I even hate it when I hear other black people call their own race the N word. I don't care how they use it and in what context, it's a step backwards, imo.

That said, I really disagree with, what OP said was a much more serious offense than what villain did. Yes, words are hurtful(and can set us back YEARS when we continue to display such ignorance) however, you can't just dismiss the fact that OP was assaulted by this guy! He could've lost an eye. And maybe HE had some prior issues/history with people bullying him or some other type of similar act that would cause him much mental harm as well as the physical harm. So, just because OP used a slur that sends out huge red flags, that alone doesn't lesson or excuse the other guy from using physical harm on another human being, not to mention his own slurs and bullying. I think HIS hatred was just as intense if you ask me but it's funny how it was conveniently pushed to the back burner just so we can point our fingers in OP face.

And it still boggles my mind that villain was awarded this pot. Does anyone even question why the Floor would've made such an unfair ruling? Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that A)this guy was a black man and B)when the Floor found out that the N word was tossed around, he decided to throw the guy a bone? I just can't think of any logical or fair reason for giving this guy the pot. I just don't get where you're coming from: "If OP doesn't use the N word he'd be stacking a big pile of chips." WHY? What does that have to do with getting the proper ruling? Cards on the floor are dead and I know they're dead at CET properties. In fact, I've never been to a room where they weren't dead.

Just wait a few weeks and then write a very nice apology letter emphasizing not what V did, but that what you did was wrong and maybe they'll let you back in after a while. Only thing you can do.