I'll also say that as a practical matter I find it's very rare to find someone actively lie about an ongoing hand. While the hand is ongoing, they don't want to be caught in a lie.

For instance, someone bets big on river on an AK984 board with 3 spades. Under questioning, they say they don't have a flush. It's actually very rare for them to have the flush and be flat out lying. However, also unlikely that they have a weak hand, because then they wouldn't want to encourage someone to call. They likely have a set or top two.

I've never heard of this. Where I play you are not allowed to say anything that could reasonably be expected to influence action. The floor will decide what qualifies.

If you say, "I have aces", it doesn't matter if it's true or not, the floor will be called if you reject the dealers instruction to stop angling.

I saw a guy get warned for this when he said, "I have to protect my hand", after 3betting pre and while his opponent was thinking about what to do. This is good although he was being honest w QQ.

If this is a reply to my post, specifically,

"In my opinion, it is okay to lie if someone asks you about your hand or how you would have played. "

Then I was unclear and meant this regarding post-hand talk only, not talk during a hand. Sorry for any confusion.

When playing lowstakes and getting called while bluffing I almost always immidetialy claim a straight/flush just for the lols, and watch for the dealers/players reaction. I would never in a million years take the pot even if the opponent mucked its simply for the lols. Funny way to get people in a good mood when you are superconfident and put your cards up like you have the nuts and proudly announce "straight" with 89 on a 257JK or whatever board and look really dumbfounded when the dealer tells me that I have 9 high. Its not like its for some sort of strategic reason or building my image its simply to make things funnier while at the table.

I think this is more what the maniac was doing when mis-declaring his hands, rather than angle-shooting, except nobody was laughing but him. Made some of the OMCs quite cantankerous actually. One in particular after an hour or two started calling the guy an idiot, a moron, a donkey, etc., repeatedly and to his face. The guy left and the table dried up. I wanted to call the angry OMC a donkey for making the cash-spewing maniac leave, but I refrained.

No one thinks you are funny.

Indeed. It's a needle. Trying to make another human feel disappointed for a moment.

Not funny. Also slows the game up.

You know what's good for the game? Someone who either mucks or fastrolls so everyone can get on with the next hand.

Yeah, I don't find this kind of thing funny, and nobody at my table did either (quite the opposite). But who knows, maybe Swedes find it funny...

Just to put a bow on this ... I think the 'talking' is much more monitored in tournaments than cash since there are other tables/players involved in the greater scheme.

As with most of these types of rules (talking, showing cards, betting lines, RIT) it's best to ask a question first before putting yourself (and maybe your pot) into a vulnerable spot. Obviously if you ask a question in the middle of a hand you may lose some of the effect of what you're trying to do, but either way it's a 'minor' potential risk as warnings are handed out like candy in most rooms. GL

Not funny. Stop.

All of this. Especially the bolded.

I frequently lie after the hand is over. Mostly to make people feel better about having folded and unlikely to start looking me up lighter because they are dying of curiosity. I have a pretty ABC image and sometimes use it to steal. I'd like to keep that FE, as making a hand is hard, and FE is rare in my games. So if I triple-barrel a missed draw and get asked what I had, I'll say something like "Overpair. Couldn't let you draw cheap."

I used to use more table-talk during hands, but depending on where you are, that is seen differently. In some places its just normal "speech play," in others it is seen as borderline angling. Plus, I've found that acting consistently after every big action is more valuable to me, and a silent stare at the board is much easier to maintain than a constant stream of banter.

As for misdeclaring. No. Just no.

Lying about non-poker stuff seems pretty lame. I guess sometimes I don't want to seem anti-social, but also don't want people to know that I'm a stripper. Then I just remind myself that I love what I do and if they want to judge me for it then so be it. They are the ones with issues.

I don't often lie at the table. Usually if someone asks about my hand I tell them the truth or make a blatant lie ("I had quads, obviously!"). If someone wants to know what I do for a living I tell them I play poker. If someone wants to know what sports teams I follow I tell them I enjoy watching sometimes but don't really follow any.

I'd like to build some basic friendly relationships with the people that are regulars or may become regulars. It's easier to do that by being honest with them.

If I'm at a place where I'm not a regular I lie for fun sometimes. I'm not sure if that makes me a sociopath or something; I just like seeing how far I can put a story together without getting called out.

The problem is that as your relationships deepen, people eventually ask questions you don't want to reveal - where you work (not sure if the stripper bit was a joke or not but if it was serious, you know what I mean), or how much you paid for your house (I've been asked that), or even how much you've won playing poker (been asked that a bunch of times and even almost told the truth once).

I would never do this at the table! Especially not to a deluded expert who was annoying the hell out of me.

This topic reminds me of a good story, though. Years ago I played with a guy who was always talking about his wife, and the software company she cofounded, and how she was always traveling overseas on business. I asked him the name of the company and he told me. When I got home, I looked up the company's website. All of the top executives were men. And it wasn't too difficult to figure out which one was my fellow poker player's husband.

People have all kinds of reasons for lying about all kinds of things. Some people lie so often about certain things in certain situations that it becomes second nature to do so. None of this should come as any surprise to anyone who has spent any amount of time in a poker room.

I said I didn't lie at the table, but I realized a habit of mine. If someone is discussing strategy, my answer is almost always whatever keeps a debate going.

"How does he raise that preflop?" "Well, it was suited"
"I would have folded on the turn" "Well, seat 2 had been betting often"
"That was such a bad call" "He was right though. Maybe he caught a read."

Whether I think my justification is right or wrong doesn't matter (Except if it would be so obviously wrong that my pants would catch on fire trying to defend it at all, then I just keep my mouth shut )

There are a few advantages to this. The biggest and probably the reason I got into this habit is usually strat talk is at the expense of the weaker players and it turns into a dogpile. It is not a good feeling when the entire table thinks you are dumb. Just having one person who probably seems like he knows what he's doing saying maybe that wasn't so bad is a huge ego saver.

Another is that usually the kind of strat that gets parroted at a table makes the games worse. It may not be sound strategy but if you are a loser you will likely lose less following that sort of level 1 advice. And it is embarrassing to be caught doing the thing the entire table just said is an idiot play. If 6 people say only a dummy calls a raise with 64o, guess what player 7 isn't calling raises with anymore. And finally, in the case where someone actually does make a wise play that the entire table thinks is wrong, nobody is learning when I say that I'd do the same thing. After all, that play is obviously wrong.

Not sure if you're admitting protracted debates at the table are bad, but if you aren't, I think they are.

My answers are usually the exact opposite - intended to end the debate as quickly as possible.

My standard response to, "What would you have done?" is, "It's close. I could see it going either way but in this position against this opponent, I would have done what he did."

I'm happy to discuss the hand honestly away from the table, including answering honestly about what I had.

I agree with sticking up for bad play. Sometimes I will say something like 'Well you can't argue with results, the best hand won' or similar when a fish play won a big pot and other people start pouting.

I hate when people stick up for bad play. 90% of the time it come across as the dishonest patronizing that it is, and the person who made the bad play knows it and even if they don't truly understand why it was bad, they do pick up on it.

I always agree with the Asians that the game is just all luck, as I scoop another $300 pot. It's kinda lying

E/ and when people ask what I do for a living I don't blurt out "I grind 1/3 for a living" I say something like Hollister model applicant or drug dealer

Maybe I should have said "ambiguity." I don't really debate anything, I just suggest the existence of another option whether or not I believe it. Kind of like your line.

Agree that it's bad when done badly.

I lie if I bluff someone who's really nice

I usually do it when whiny regs start pissing and moaning at an action player. And I generally say things which are 100% true and meant sincerely e.g. "You can play your cards however you like."

Ok what do you guys think of this situation, was it unethical? Angle shooting?

Im playing local 1/2 nl game. Everyone folds to SB pf. He limps i look doen and raise to 12 with TT. He shoves for $170 more. I say i have a big hand. Im fishing for info. I show him my TT as im about to muck and he says to me its a race and that he has two overcards. So i say ok ill race with you assuming he has a hand like AQ or AK. The minute i call he flips over two Aces. And says he did nothing wrong. I tell him its scummy and unethical. What do you guys think? Whats the lesson here? BTW I WOULD NEVER DO THIS MYSELF.


Thanks

Personally I think it's mildly unethical to show your cards looking for a read, and then to suddenly call based on information he may have given you because it looked like you were mucking. They're both at least a little sketchy. I wouldn't do what he did either, because I would never comment on what I have, but in his spot I would be annoyed by what you were doing and I don't blame him for giving incorrect information after you went fishing.