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Old 05-19-2017, 10:38 AM   #876
SpewingIsMyMove
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo View Post
Snipers,

I understand your hesitation. No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em is the Cadillac of poker. There's no other game in which fortunes can change so much from hand to hand. Some people, pros even, won't play No-Limit. They can't handle the swings. But there are others, like Doyle Brunson, who consider No-Limit the only pure game left.

Also, it's not really "flipping" if you get to choose what you push with and dude will call with 98o.
Diablo, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:22 PM   #877
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by Snipers35 View Post
Just figured out Multi-quote lol.

I guess what I was trying to say got lost in how I was trying to say it. I love getting huge odds on my premiums too except.
1. A rec player doesn't feel like waiting 3 hours to get a premium.
2. I don't feel like flipping for my entire stack when my whole goal is to just have some fun. Losing what I brought in one hand to a maniac is not fun for me, win or lose.
It sounds like no-limit isn't the game for you.
If you don't want to play for stacks, and you want to just relax and have fun, why not play fixed limit?
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:52 PM   #878
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by SetofJacks View Post
It sounds like no-limit isn't the game for you.
If you don't want to play for stacks, and you want to just relax and have fun, why not play fixed limit?
It wasn't available at that particular time. I usually try to play around 5-10 limit.

I don't mind no limit, really. (It isn't my preference though) I think I didn't focus enough on telling how much life this guy sucked out of the game while we were there. It wasn't so much the constant raising and shoving as much as the smug demeanor and gruffness just killed it for me.

I felt like I was way behind in skill level and I had no other weapons to combat it since his stack was 4 times mine.

But what I took away was how upset the guy was that the table was breaking. He was mostly the reason behind it. The game would have most likely broke even if I stayed and played, because the other 2 new people left as well. I think that would have made it 3 or 4 handed.

I don't think I'm trying to say for someone to change how they play, cause that isn't my decision nor do I care, but why continue to act in a manner that is going to chase away the people you're trying to make money off of?
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:00 PM   #879
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
Diablo, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker.
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Originally Posted by El Diablo View Post
Snipers,

I understand your hesitation. No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em is the Cadillac of poker. There's no other game in which fortunes can change so much from hand to hand. Some people, pros even, won't play No-Limit. They can't handle the swings. But there are others, like Doyle Brunson, who consider No-Limit the only pure game left.

Also, it's not really "flipping" if you get to choose what you push with and dude will call with 98o.
I understand as a recreational player I am way behind in skill then a typical reg player. I called it flipping because in this case it was AK vs 89 (not a flip but like 65-35ish)

I think I've messed up what I wanted to convey. I think my point was trying to say that people shouldn't try to chase away players - it was annoying to me how he questioned why I would leave and trying to goad me into playing more.

I consider myself recreational because I only get to play in a casino once every other month or so. I play a bit online when I can, and I would probably be a B- to C grade player in all honestly. I understand the math and have some instincts but a lot of this GTO and advance range stuff just slips my mind. When I play, I usually profit more than I come home a loser but I've never really had any big wins or losses. I think the $203 I made in this 1/2 game might be the largest I've made in 1/2 NL ever in a session.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:15 PM   #880
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

Why would you play no limit if you aren't prepared to lose a buy in at any given point. Play limit hold em or any other of the limit games and it'll be much better.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:49 PM   #881
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by Kelvis View Post
Why would you play no limit if you aren't prepared to lose a buy in at any given point. Play limit hold em or any other of the limit games and it'll be much better.
I'm ok with losing a buy in if it happens (I was in for $300 that night because I tried a river bluff/raise and got snapped off for about $120 bucks at my previous table).

I'm not prepared to play for my stack every single hand over and over and over.

Pretty much my only adjustment to make was to wait for premiums and get it in against him. Which is fine if I have all day and can play whenever I want.

It wasn't fun for me to potentially sit there for hours and play 5% of my hands. I do play limit when it is available. Unfortunately at that time there was 1/2 NL or 2/5 NL. My other 1/2 table which was fun and entertaining got broken up and we got moved to this one.

EDIT: I'm sure some of my thinking is wrong here, its just kind of hard to explain. Thanks for all the comments on it though, I do appreciate them.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:03 PM   #882
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

Snipers,

I get your point. You wanted to splash around a little playing low stakes poker, and this guy forced you to play your $500 stack like a nitty shortstack. So even if it was +EV having him in the game, it made it a less fun, boring game for you to play. Plus the added EV came with much higher additional variance than was worth it to you.

Sounds like the guy wanted to be the 1/2 badass and got his wish. Lots of better ways to generate more action and get the game to play bigger than the way you describe this guy going about it.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:44 PM   #883
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by El Diablo View Post
Snipers,

I get your point. You wanted to splash around a little playing low stakes poker, and this guy forced you to play your $500 stack like a nitty shortstack. So even if it was +EV having him in the game, it made it a less fun, boring game for you to play. Plus the added EV came with much higher additional variance than was worth it to you.

Sounds like the guy wanted to be the 1/2 badass and got his wish. Lots of better ways to generate more action and get the game to play bigger than the way you describe this guy going about it.
Thank you, you said it better than I could try to say it.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:36 AM   #884
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo View Post
Snipers,

I understand your hesitation. No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em is the Cadillac of poker. There's no other game in which fortunes can change so much from hand to hand. Some people, pros even, won't play No-Limit. They can't handle the swings. But there are others, like Doyle Brunson, who consider No-Limit the only pure game left.

Also, it's not really "flipping" if you get to choose what you push with and dude will call with 98o.
lol this reads so trollish, it makes me laugh and i dont know why, as its accurate info!
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:02 PM   #885
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Live poker pet peeves.

WB:

Also accurate info:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
Diablo, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker.
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Old 05-21-2017, 03:13 PM   #886
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpewingIsMyMove View Post
Diablo, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo View Post
WB:

Also accurate info:
What if you always spot the sucker but are always wrong. AFAF. Please respond before PLO game kicks off at 4PM.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:23 AM   #887
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

Hearing old men say "That's why they call it poker!" every 10 minutes as the answer to some random unrelated point, comment, or question.

EX: "I almost tripled up earlier but the board five-flushed."
OM: "That's why they call it poker!"

EX: "I was down a buy-in, but just about back to even now."
OM: "That's why they call it poker!"

EX" "These chairs are uncomfortable."
OM: "That's why they call it poker!"

All right I made up the last one, but you get the gist. I swear, I was at this table as one of two people under 60 and it was filled with typical inane poker chatter, and it seemed for almost any comment vaguely related to poker (particularly comments related to luck), the old man sitting across from me would pipe up, "That's why they call it poker!" like this was some kind of epiphany.

WTF. I don't get it. Is this some weird inside joke that only old men get? Is there some secret meaning to "poker"?

Also, another gem from the same old man. I told him I was new to live play but had played millions of hands online, which, being a live player, he dismissed as meaningless experience. At some point I corrected him about some minor poker thing I don't even remember and he responded "Son, I've been playing this game since before you were born. I know how to {whatever}"

I wanted to say "You've been playing live NLHE for 30+ years and you're still a break even 1/2 player? Yeah, you're clearly a poker expert"

But...I remembered not to berate the fish, even the cranky ones, so I just nodded and smiled. Ironically, same old man called the maniac to his right a donkey, an idiot, and a moron repeatedly. I couldn't believe it. This maniac was just spewing cash to the table and the old man is insulting him, to his face. Maniac left after about an hour of this and I got stuck at a 100% OMC table (minus me).

I guess that's why they call it poker!
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:36 AM   #888
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

The reason they say 'That's why they call it poker!' is bec 'JFC! GOD DAMN IT TO HELL!' was already taken.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:16 PM   #889
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.



This thing is the alternate meaning of "poker", which would be especially painful to get poker by after being heated in a fire. So that phrase could be a joke that applies when someone is complaining about being tortured by the poker gods (or demons). Of course it doesn't make sense in some of your examples.

Last edited by chillrob; 05-22-2017 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Hey, my first ever image attachment, and it worked!
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:43 PM   #890
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Also, another gem from the same old man. I told him I was new to live play but had played millions of hands online,
Solid strat
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Old 05-22-2017, 04:37 PM   #891
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Hearing old men say "That's why they call it poker!" every 10 minutes as the answer to some random unrelated point, comment, or question.

EX: "I almost tripled up earlier but the board five-flushed."
OM: "That's why they call it poker!"

EX: "I was down a buy-in, but just about back to even now."
OM: "That's why they call it poker!"

EX" "These chairs are uncomfortable."
OM: "That's why they call it poker!"
Counterpoint: I sometimes say 'yeah that's poker' to people in a monotone because hearing yet another totally standard bad beat story is unendurable (also, yeah, that's poker).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
Also, another gem from the same old man. I told him I was new to live play but had played millions of hands online, which, being a live player, he dismissed as meaningless experience. At some point I corrected him about some minor poker thing I don't even remember and he responded "Son, I've been playing this game since before you were born. I know how to {whatever}"
Why tell him you played millions of hands online? Why correct him on minor poker things?
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Old 05-22-2017, 05:36 PM   #892
Shai Hulud
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

I know talking about my online experience is not +EV, though most of the 1/2 fish think online players are bad.

I had just started playing live and this was literally the first table I sat down to. It seemed pretty obvious I was new, and some people were giving me lots of "advice" about poker like the old man across from me, so I explained I wasn't actually new to poker, just the live variety.

I guess I could have just sat there and acted stupid.

As for what I corrected him on, I don't even remember what it was. I have a habit of correcting people. Just slipped out. I'm still adjusting to table talk.

Also, "Yeah that's poker" is very different from "That's why they call it poker!" The first phrase just suggests bad beats happen due to the nature of poker as a gambling game. The second phrase, the way I've heard these old men use it, makes no sense at all. The reason the game is called "poker" as opposed to some other arbitrary name has nothing to do with whether QQ will lose to AK a lot. It's like a guy says "I spilled some ketchup off this hamburger" and you respond "That's why they call it hamburger!"

That is, unless chillrob's fire poker theory is in play

But this is what I found on Wikipedia regarding the origins of the name poker:

"The name of the game likely descended from the Irish Poca (Pron. Pokah) ('Pocket') or even the French poque, which descended from the German pochen ('to brag as a bluff' lit. 'to knock')."

So the way these old men are using the phrase makes no sense.
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:00 PM   #893
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
I don't feel the same way, but I can understand why people might hate shortstackers. One reason is that it doesn't feel like a lot of money. Another reason is that it's hard to bluff a short stack.
The average poker player (including many who consider themselves "good players") experiences poker in the same way that a slot player experiences a slot machine. They put their money in and are looking for a big score.

In no limit, this manifests itself as a hatred for short stacks, even though they are invariably donating. They don't create the jackpot double-and-triple up pots that players are looking for.

In limit, this manifests itself in the phenomenon where rather than folding to three bets and four bets, which is what one should do (especially if the three and four bettors have strong ranges), players call with bad hands because they want to play in the biggest pot of the hour.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:02 PM   #894
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
My pet peeve is men expecting me to play soft against them because they often play soft against me because I am young and female. Tactically it often benefits me to play soft in return because it saves me money and so I will. However I do not like if when I decide not to play soft the guy gets upset. We are not friends and we are playing to win money. It is not a friendly gathering of relatives playing for pennies.

Only yesterday this happened. A guy with the nuts did not raise me on the river and he says "since you're Swedish I'll be nice."
Later I go all in when I hit my flush against him. He asks me "do you have the ace?" I reply "do I need the ace?" He calls and shows a king high flush. I have the ace high flush so I win the $400ish pot. He becomes very belligerent and tells everyone I am backstabbing because I do not return his kindness from earlier. I remind him that he called my all in bet in attempt to win my money.

This type of thing happens often to me and I have heard to other women who play. I am relatively new to live games, only one year playing and so I have not learned how to handle the situation.

Maybe my definition is not the exact example of a pet peeve but currently it is what bothers me the most when I play. It is okay to be friendly but I expect people to try and win my money as I will try and win theirs. I do not become mad if you are friendly and then win my money. This is why we play.
That has to be really annoying. I sympathize to the extent I can, being male. There is a lot of sexism in poker. Men generally assume female players are bad, which is possibly why they go easy on you, or they find you attractive, which makes them stupid.

But the fact that men are willing to go easy on you gives you a huge edge, even if you don't return the favor. As you say, winning money is the goal, so for whatever reason men are willing to spew money in your direction, just try to be thankful for that and to ignore the occasional belligerence when you don't return the favor. If the table becomes too unfriendly, you can always table change.
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Old 05-22-2017, 09:33 PM   #895
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Hey now! This makes them men. I do not become upset because men find me attractive. I find some men poker players attractive too. I bought one guy a casual dinner using my Venetian comps.
Well I meant if they find you attractive they're likely to play suboptimally, which is a huge edge given something like 85% of players even at the 1/2 level are male. If you're also nice and/or flirtatious with them, they're going to play VERY suboptimally.

Then there's also the protectionist type men who will be cutthroat competitive with their fellow men but go easy on you because either they think you can't handle the competition or it's not proper for a man to take financial advantage of young women. That kind of attitude is extremely common in the Southern US where I'm currently playing.

I'm kind of jealous, actually. I wonder if I pretended to be gay and hit on the men if that would generate any kind of advantage...if nothing else it would probably tilt the conservative old men

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Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
True and I take advantage. I usually return their kindness in small pots. I will not try to win an extra $10 with a value bet against a guy that was kind to me in an earlier pot. However when the pot and bets grow I try to win the most money and I expect my opponents to do the same.

I will admit to using a pout to save myself a bet. More than once a guy has said to me on the river "I am sorry but I have to bet this" and I pouted and the guy did not bet.

Once a guy that noticed this behavior then pouted at me when I was going to bet $30 against him. I laughed so hard, and so did others at the table, that I couldn't bet.
Haha, that pouting sounds amazingly useful. I don't blame you for taking advantage, but I can see how some men might get a little miffed if they refrain from stacking you because you pouted, and then you stack them a few hands later (for example). But as far as I'm concerned it's their own fault for letting you get to them. If they want to win money they should concentrate on playing. And if they're there to be friendly with you they shouldn't care much about the money.

Personally I play the same against men and women so I shouldn't find myself in this kind of situation.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:24 PM   #896
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
I do not try to be overly flirtatious because then I feel as if I am deceiving them on a personal level.
If you draw the line there, that's fine, though I don't see much difference between flirting with them and pouting when you want a fold, buying lunch for a guy, etc.

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I have not traveled to the American south yet. I am still living in the American west because that is where I work.
There's no reason to come to the South, as there isn't much to recommend the region besides relatively low cost of living. There are a few spots that are okay (Austin, parts of Florida if you like beaches and hot weather), but I've lived in four states in the South and they were all various degrees of bleh...plus, not much poker here. I'm in Texas and have to drive three hours to the Oklahoma border. Florida is the best Southern state for poker, though coastal Louisiana and Mississippi also have casinos.

Personally I prefer the Western US, especially the Pacific NW and Colorado. The Northeast is also okay. Depends what you like, but I think coming from Sweden you would find the South quite a culture shock.

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How do you decide which players are gay? If you hit on the straight men I think there might be issues.
Well, the plan would be to hit on all of them. If they're gay and find me attractive, they go easy on me. If they're straight, grumpy old men, they go on tilt and play worse than usual.
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:22 PM   #897
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by TexasLexus View Post
Dealer where I play says "you're first" as he pitches second card to utg player. But, of course, its largely ignored. Pay attention people.

LMAO if a dealer ever did this too me pushing me to make a snap decision, especially when half the people in my room telegraph there bets.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:26 AM   #898
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
Once a guy that noticed this behavior then pouted at me when I was going to bet $30 against him. I laughed so hard, and so did others at the table, that I couldn't bet.
The correct response to his pout would have been, "There's no begging in poker!" and firing the $30. For reasons that are not clear to me, beggars seem to go on massive tilt when they are called beggars. (Plus, the fact that you had previously gotten away with it would make for a nice reciprocal advantage.)
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:30 AM   #899
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

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Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
I bought a guy lunch because I liked him and I was flirting for personal reasons, not poker reasons. I did not want to take his money. I wanted to kiss his lips.
Ah, okay. It was unclear from your previous post what your motive was.

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Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
Your country is huge and beautiful and I I hope to see much of America before my work visa expires.
Much of it is, yes. But not the inhabited portions of the South.

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Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
Hopefully the company I work for will need a translator for many more years. Poker does not matter for me. It is only something I play to get a little extra spending money. Also it allows me to met so many different people because people from all over the world visit the Las Vegas casinos. It's weird when I meet people from my own country who are here on vacation.
Yeah so Las Vegas is like the opposite of what you'd experience in the Texas/Oklahoma border casino I've been going to (Winstar). Instead of meeting diverse people from all over the world, you meet white men from Dallas.

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I am just good enough at 1/2 and 1/3 to win a little extra money. Mostly I'm just really tight and patient. I only play large pairs and if I do not flop quads, then I fold.
This isn't a strat thread, or I'd ask how you manage to make money waiting for quads. But whatever works

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All of America is a culture shock! I visited Phoenix Arizona last month and there are people there walking around with guns rlon their hips as if they are cowboys. Then I played poker on an Indian reservation. In Sweden most of us learn English from old American shows. English is taught in our schools but it is old British English and is not taught well so we learn from old American shows. I felt like I was in one of those shows from way back. It was exciting!
In Texas most people own guns. It's normal to see people open carrying a revolver and wearing a cowboy hat. Or even open-carrying assault rifles occasionally. There's not much to do here though, compared to a lot of American locales. Hunting feral pigs is popular. Fishing. Rodeos. Cockfighting. Drinking beer in a tree stand and shooting passing deer. 3-gun competitions. Generally anything involving guns and/or harming animals. Going to church. Barbecues. Football (the American kind, not the kind popular literally everywhere else). And Texas is one of the better states in the South. I lived for years in Mississippi. It's cool if you like poverty, flat landscapes, and hot, humid weather.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockholm Stella View Post
Also I was excited to be here during the most weird presidential election ever. I use to only follow Swedish politics but now I follow your politics because they're so much more interesting. We are having our own Russian issues back home.
I guess the Trump presidency is interesting, in the way all global catastrophic risks are interesting. Heh.

And just so I haven't veered completely off topic, seeing someone eating a steak or ribs at the poker table disgusts me.

You know what, I want to move to Sweden. Can we trade passports or something?
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:03 AM   #900
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Re: Live poker pet peeves.

I like having women at the table, because it makes a pleasant change from the wall-to-wall testosterone and also because they tend to be even worse at poker than the men. Never stopped me taking their money though.

A few weeks ago, some lady was playing, she was very loose pre and then very passive postflop. I got a huge kick out of her running like God and watching one of the local heroes, who thinks he's the LAG king, spew off about 8 hundo to her before doing the walk of shame to another table. Was hilarious.
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