Playing LIMIT holdem at my local casino. Degen to my right has dumped around 3-4 buy ins (20 big bets= 1 buy) but habitually gets up to degen it up in the pits after he takes a beat. I know this because I have observed him taking chips off the table and sometimes coming back with more, which he promptly puts back on his stack.

Anyway, I say nothing because this guy is spewing chips to me and others and isnt ratholing any winnings because as I said he was down at least 3 buy ins. After taking another beat (a3 off got drawn out haha) he takes a stack of chips and is about to take another trip to the pits when another player chimes in to the dealer that the player is taking chips off the table and that he is not allowed to do that. The dealer agrees and tells the player to leave the chips on the table or leave.

Sensing that said degen was considering taking his whole stack and leaving I join in with the chorus of regs saying that "no its okay, its a limit game, let him go and come back etc". The dealer agrees with us and says fine, he can go (def against the rules).

We all know that what he was doing was against the rules but the spirit of the rules is to protect players from ratholing which this guy definitely was not doing. The guy who chimed in seemed a little miffed that he could leave but said nothing more.

Unethical or standard?

Kinda both unethical and standard.

A stickler would say, "Too bad, table stakes and the guy needs to either pick up and let someone else play or get his pits money from his pocket or the ATM."

Others would say, "Whatever keeps the fish at the table and gambling is fine."

I personally don't mind either way. If the dude is paying time like everyone else and is donating to me and the other players, then he can do what he wants. You said yourself that he wasn't ratholing, but rather buying in over and over. It's tough to find a problem with that from a practical standpoint.

I would say at a NL game this would be where I would stop him, fish or no.

For Limit however, as long as he has at least 5ish BB in his stack I'm not saying anything.

In a limit game I would never say anything and would argue for him to be able to do whatever he wanted. Anyone who doesn't understand why this guy deserves special treatment isn't paying much attention.

Yeah, big difference between a limit game and a NL. In a limit game, I don't care if he ratholes as long as he still has the min buy-in for the table. I've taken chips off the table in limit games to loan to a friend, but it doesn't matter as long as you intend to always have enough money on the table to reasonably play out a hand.

Don't tap the tank.

i cringe when i htink about this but usually players are more lenient with the rules when it comes to keeping the action players in the game as long as possible. Yes, it is a massive double standard and that is why i cringe...

example

playing in the local 2/5 game im sitting with about 2.5k the 5/10 game breaks and an extremely good reg from that game comes and sits in our game with his stack from the 5/10 game ~6K....obviously i say something and he's forced to remove chips until he's at the max buy-in.....had he been a whale, i would have kept my mouth shut...

unethical yes, standard yes.....

i hate myself....hah



in your situation in a limit game - i think this is fine....if it was NL (and i cringe again) it would be up to the mood of the table on whether or not to let this slide to keep him coming back......hopefully with more chips from the pit....

I had almost a exact same situation.

Was sitting to the left of 2 big fishes.
They were friends with each other and played as a team in a NL Cash game.

It pissed me off a bit but since they were like the biggest fish I've seen in a while I still wanted them to keep playing.

Dealer gave them a warning and later a guy at table got trapped by them, he cut his losses and folded when he understood that and didn't want to say anything because everyone they were so bad.

Basically, Everyone knew they were working together but were still allowed to stay.

When they played against others they were maniacally super lag but when they up against eachother they always checked it down even if one of them held the nuts.

It's LIMIT, its okay but no one goes south on me in a NL game.

OP is a perfect example of situational ehics. Not criticizing it in any way, just pointing that out.

In low level limit, I would tend to go with the table IF they suggested they were okay with the guy coming and going and spewing chips in between.

I can't fault the dealer for not wanting to make waves. (Does anyone know the origin of that saying? I do, I just wondered if anyone else did.)

But another dealer might be reluctant to do so. The single player who objected can call the floor and cause problems for the dealer. Yes, we all want to earn tips but we also want to be able to come to ork tomorrow. Game integrity is a very high priority but so is customer satisfaction. One of those tight ropes Floors walk everyday.

If you find yourselves in a similar situation and the dealer or the floor want to stick to the letter of the rules, keep in mind they have the Gaming Commission, the room manager and casino management to answer to.

A old Andy Griffith movie called "No Time For Sergents". Andy was in basic training and the DI explained that life was a big lake with everyone in a little boat. As long as the water remained perfectly still, everyone was happy. If the someone made waves, it got the brass mad and they would all jump on the DI. So the DI wanted the lake to remain calm and quiet. SO DON"T MAKE WAVES!

Here in LA before the NL boom you would often have opponents who would take chips off the table to play the Asian style games or bet the horses at Hollywood Park. Few seemed to care or complain; if anything people were happy to see him come back a winner and gamble it up. In NL I don't see it much and would expect a chorus of complaints if it happens.

When I worked the floor at Hollywood Park in the late nineties I'd get occasional complaints from out of town nits that chips were being taken off the table to bet horses. Of course we allowed that and most customers understood that a game full of horse players was usually a good game.

You may be right that they were working as a team, but checking it down when they are HU w each other is perfectly acceptable.



As for OP, its a limit game. The only reason why that rule would be in effect at a limit table would be if the room doesn't understand the difference btwn limit and NL.

I'd say that if everyone at the table agrees, then let the guy do what he wants. If anyone at the table doesn't want him taking chips off, well, rules are rules.

Well, there was a reason i caps locked limit, I understand that it is a different game to rathole than nl.

But had he been up money I wonder if it would still "make no difference" whatsoever. I mean, I'm sure most at the table would want that kind of player to stay, but it is still a little messed up to rathole chips when up a few buy ins, even in limit imo.

The guy who complained was stuck and lost a few pots to the pit player. I felt a little bad about it because he was well within his rights and the rules to make his request, and was basically bullied out of complaining by the rest of the table for the "greater good" of the game.

Wikipedia has this as a 20th Century saying, but frankly I doubt that. You don't want to make waves in port by going too fast, so I suspect it is much older, at least in naval situations.

I'm sure I wouldnt have a problem with this even in a NL/PL game.
The reason is the guy is a whale so the most important thing to do is to KEEP HIM GAMBLING WITH US , We should be tying to creat the illision that were all gambling together.I might even join him in the pit for a while if I think I can get this guy to keep up the gambling, once back at the table.