QFT. And people wonder why limit is dead.

The kill pot belongs to the winner(s) of the next hand.

That's the rule in the casinos in which I play.

But different casinos often have slightly different rules.

And within the same casino, different floor managers rule differently.

In the case of this incident,
(1) the kill pot winner (perhaps inadvertently) stole the kill pot from the winner(s) of the next hand,
(2) the dealer was remiss,
(3) and then the floor manager did not treat you with respect.

I can see why you would feel frustrated. I don't think you were out of line in protesting basically being mistreated.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

It's funny that it seems like the only people who support me here are the regulars in the O8 forum!

I think perhaps people who don't play in kill games much don't realize how routine it is for a kill to be corrected after the next deal has already started, even if it sometimes means waiting until a subsequent hand.

Like, I can see making a spectacle of it with the intention of making the staff more likely to not let it happen again in the future. I just don't understand why you don't understand that most people on Earth are going to answer your question of "is this out of line?" with a "yes".


Any time I'm thinking "jesus, I'll just mail you 15 bucks", you've crossed past the line where you should maybe let it go.


Now you can respond with "There are rules and if the rules aren't going to be followed....etc" and "where do you draw the line on how much money has to be at stake for this to matter" and my response to all that is, "It depends"



Also, lol at labeling the guy a cheater. It's not like he was holding onto an Ace to switch out in a certain situation. I'm sure the guy just didn't know.

Thanks. I think that #1 hits it for me. As someone who only plays NL, to see so much passion and intensity over one missed blind seems really over the top. That's why I couldn't really even understand why they specifically wrote it into RROP that you had to pay even if you left. The idea of paying a blind for a hand that occurs after you leave the table seems alien to me.

BTW, which one of the reasons above is the legitimate one?

I guess I should have known that they usually don't announce what the punishments are, but inquiring minds want to know! Thanks.

As I said above, the whole idea seems really odd to a NL player. So I've learned a lot in this thread. (including how truly special limit Omaha players can be!)

Forget it Jake. It's O8.

If everyone agrees it was the dealer's fault for missing the the kill, it also seems like one reasonable solution would be to add the amount of the kill to the next pot from the rack.

If a guy goes all-in and loses the hand, the casino doesn't pay the winner of the hand out of their pocket if the loser racks up and walks out.

Maybe not, but the casino would almost certainly have the loser banned from the casino. I think this would also be an option (albeit an extreme one) in this case if they confronted the guy and he refused to pay the kill.

And I actually have seen a casino pay out a pot to a guy in the case of a dealer error. It was a couple months back at Horseshoe Baltimore at 1/3 NL.

A short stack ended up all-in on the turn with an overpair and a flush draw against the big stack's set. The dealer mucked the entire bored and pushed the pot the the big stack without ever dealing the river. After a lot of hand-wringing, the floor let the big stack keep the pot and reimbursed the shortstack the amount of his stack from the cage.

If you take this approach .... players will never speak up in a timely manner when a mistake gets made because they would rather let another player keep the money and get house to pay.

And we now have to triple the rake to make up for this policy.

I frequently play O8 with a kill and think you're dead wrong.

Yes, a dealer mistake started this. Yes, it's common to make people make up the kill.

Yes, you were out of line.

I guess I should add that I'm an avid live O8 player as well? I just don't post in the forums.

let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night.

Dover Beach, Mathew Arnold

Half of my poker these days is O8 with a kill. I don't know, but in my home casino we just don't have this as a regular problem. The dealers seem to be really good about catching when there's a kill pot. I've never seen a kill blind go two hands later as a "make-up" kill.

In fact, we often have people play over people who go to eat. One guy was playing over and the original player came back from dinner. She told him he could play until the big blind if he wanted, which he did. He last hand he won a monster pot which meant he was the kill in the big blind. They made him play the big blind as the kill. I guess my casino is just more attentive?

And it still seems like you took it too far.

Maybe you play in a room or an area in the U.S. that deals the game and reads the hands better. I play in AC, and although a lot of them are pretty good at reading the board/knowing when it's a kill pot etc., a lot of them still do not. Vegas is exceptional with this, imho.

I've also seen plenty of "make-up" kills happen---Lets say I scoop a qualifying pot but everyone misses that it was supposed to be a kill and the next hand has already been dealt out with substantial action; well, if another player scoops that hand, then he puts up the kill first and then me. And that's only if no one else scoops the pot after that. It can take you an entire half(or several hands) before your "make-up" kill gets back to you.

And OP only took it too far IF it wasn't done deliberately. Cause, if OP knew that he was just dodging the kill and it was a rule in the room stating that you have to post the kill? Then WTG to him for trying to uphold the integrity. As for everyone else in that game who wound up quitting over it...do you think OP knew it was going to have that effect? My guess would be absolutely not. Cut him some slack.

I play in a E/O mix game in LA regularly. This has not happened in our game since we speak up at the time of incident. Where you messed up is that you fail to realize the object of the game, which is to have fun and win money. Because of 30 dollars you ruined the atmosphere of an other wise decent game. If it was a big problem, say something before the guy racks up and leaves.

We all have different motivations. Those might be YOUR objects. I think most poker players are seeking something else--specifically, they'd happily toss those goals aside for a chance to feel/appear to be The Smartest Kid In The Class.

And the O/8 players think they're the Honors Society.

Lol. So true. I play in the borgata 10/20 game and there r quite a few of these type of players. I just don't get it cause they make the game miserable.
Side note. At borgata you can rack up without posting a kill. Not against the rules I've seen it happen a few times by regs non the less.

Lol so not true. The players just want things to be done right, and if things were run smoothly and properly you would never hear a sound from any O/8 player. It's just that the vast majority of dealers and floors consistently insist on doing the wrong things and simply not giving a ****. Of course the conscientious O/8 players will speak up (unlike the no limit tourist sheeple), and of course the idiot dealers and floor people will just interpret it as frivolous grumbling. But everyone knows who's right and who's wrong. The lack of dignity and respect by a majority of dealers is really astounding, especially when you consider that the people they deride as stiffs are paying the biggest portion of their salaries.

And don't blame any player for leaving on the kill. After all they are only playing according to the rules. Blame the house for their asinine rules. Of course leaving on the kill is terrible for the game and players should be forced to put up the kill amount. But until the house changes the rules players shouldn't be castigated for doing something allowable, no matter how objectionable.

I love Joel. To a poker dealer, he's like a wrestling heel, cutting promos.