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Old 05-11-2016, 05:46 PM   #201
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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We've always welcomed an open exchange of ideas ITT.
Might have to take that one to the tape for further review.

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You've never liked the way we compartmentalize the forum. You made that clear a long time ago.
Pretty certain this isn't true as I have never commented upon decisions made by a "we".
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:47 PM   #202
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

I'm not an employee
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:47 PM   #203
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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If it helps, I will make it all three mods in this forum who will confirm that the site rules prohibit room employees from making promotional posts in LCP and its Venues sub forums, even in direct response to a question. We'll see if we can get Bobo in here to satisfy you, though.

We're completely open to having a discussion about moderation. It should happen in this thread.
How is a bounty an employee?
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:51 PM   #204
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

If he receives a free entry, a free meal, or even non-monetary gain in the form of increasing his reputation/profile by treating him as a celebrity, it would be reasonable to treat him as a de facto employee for the purpose of the bounty event.
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:55 PM   #205
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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I'm not an employee
AsianNit explained it well in the LLSNL thread. In this case you're a somewhat of a defacto employee.
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:57 PM   #206
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

So someone else besides me can post the structure sheet and the list of bounties for the benefit of anyone who may be interested in playing the tournament?
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:04 PM   #207
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

Seems overly nitty to ask for a definition of "de facto employee" when one can easily derive it from examining the meaning of "de facto" and the meaning of "employee".
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:05 PM   #208
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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So someone else besides me can post the structure sheet and the list of bounties for the benefit of anyone who may be interested in playing the tournament?
I'm gonna let Bobo field this one, as I don't want to say something that's not true. The answer is yes, but there's more to it than that.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:07 PM   #209
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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So someone else besides me can post the structure sheet and the list of bounties for the benefit of anyone who may be interested in playing the tournament?
It sounds like not just you. Anyone who is affiliated with room or the tournament probably can't post about it without going through the site's advertising department first.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:09 PM   #210
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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Seems overly nitty to ask for a definition of "de facto employee" when one can easily derive it from examining the meaning of "de facto" and the meaning of "employee".
Except the term "de facto employee" generally applies to independent contractors, and a tournament bounty is not considered as such.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:09 PM   #211
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

First off, it seems like a pretty strong reaction to a few deleted posts. Not sure what kind of productive discussion you're hoping for when you keep calling Rapini "moderator", as if he isn't really worth of the title. And yes, I know Rapini sucks blah blah blah - is that really the best way to start things off?

Anyway, I see two issues here. I'll deal with the easiest one first - the discussion of the moderation decision being directed here. It's extremely standard in this forum, and in many others, that moderation discussion is contained in a thread like this rather than being allowed to derail other threads. I see no issue with it, and I doubt most others would either.

Obviously the bigger issue is the post that was deleted. First of all, you guys should know that we're a little stricter in this forum than we are in some others when it comes to promotional posts, and that's something that comes from administration, not the moderators. A non-advertising rep wouldn't normally be allowed to promote their own events. Where it gets a little grayer is when someone else does it, as that would be an easy way for a room to get around self-promotional rules. And in the case of a bounty, it might be in their interest to promote the event for a few different reasons - or it might just be that they're a regular and looking forward to a good time and want to tell others about it.

Either way, I'll probably have a bit of a PM pow-wow with the mods as they likely know a bit more about this than I can see from the surface. I'm in and out a lot this afternoon/evening, so it might not going to get sorted out in the next couple of hours - it would be cool if people could cool it on the "Rapini sucks" posts and Tweets (A "Rapini is the nut low mod...He lets the littlest amount of power go to his head and should be removed as a moderator." Tweet within an hour or two of the deletion? Really??) until we can have a discussion about it.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:12 PM   #212
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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It sounds like not just you. Anyone who is affiliated with room or the tournament probably can't post about it without going through the site's advertising department first.
And this is why we need to be so strict about stuff like this. Because paid advertising for promotions is a source of revenue for this site, we have to be uber-nitty about what unpaid "promoting" does get through. LCP and MTTx-Live mods have some additional responsibilities that other forum mods don't have to deal with. It's why Bobo is a mod in both. So yes, this was a super nitty deletion, but it's that way by design.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:12 PM   #213
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

Maybe the mod could have at least said plainly "I deleted W's posts because of X , Y and Z" instead of being somewhat vague.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:17 PM   #214
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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Except the term "de facto employee" generally applies to independent contractors, and a tournament bounty is not considered as such.
Would you feel better if I referred to him as a de facto independent contractor who gains something from this tournament? (Did he have to sign a contract to be put in this position?)
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:19 PM   #215
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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Would you feel better if I referred to him as a de facto independent contractor who gains something from this tournament? (Did he have to sign a contract to be put in this position?)
No, because you would still be wrong.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:19 PM   #216
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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Maybe the mod could have at least said plainly "I deleted W's posts because of X , Y and Z" instead of being somewhat vague.
The false accusation of spamming did not help either.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:21 PM   #217
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

Let's just ignore the direct request for clarification that was deleted.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:32 PM   #218
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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First off, it seems like a pretty strong reaction to a few deleted posts. Not sure what kind of productive discussion you're hoping for when you keep calling Rapini "moderator", as if he isn't really worth of the title. And yes, I know Rapini sucks blah blah blah - is that really the best way to start things off?
Let me turn this around to you. Was rapini's deletion of a post/accusation of spamming directed toward a long time member of the site productive? Particularly when the person in question is only a bounty (for the first time ever I believe) and may not have known they would be considered an affiliate under some secret site definitions? (I will address this further below.) Perhaps with the deletion, a quick PM explaining why he thought it was against the site rules would have been helpful?
But no, in his usual fashion, he deleted with a vague reason why, and then doubled down by calling RG a spammer. And again, that was for one post.

Quote:
Anyway, I see two issues here. I'll deal with the easiest one first - the discussion of the moderation decision being directed here. It's extremely standard in this forum, and in many others, that moderation discussion is contained in a thread like this rather than being allowed to derail other threads. I see no issue with it, and I doubt most others would either.
Fine.

Quote:
Obviously the bigger issue is the post that was deleted. First of all, you guys should know that we're a little stricter in this forum than we are in some others when it comes to promotional posts, and that's something that comes from administration, not the moderators. A non-advertising rep wouldn't normally be allowed to promote their own events. Where it gets a little grayer is when someone else does it, as that would be an easy way for a room to get around self-promotional rules. And in the case of a bounty, it might be in their interest to promote the event for a few different reasons - or it might just be that they're a regular and looking forward to a good time and want to tell others about it.
All of that is perfectly reasonable, and I can see both sides to the bolded. However, it would be helpful if what constituted an affiliate was more clearly defined, and if a long time account crossed the line that information was provided to them via PM or in a post in the thread with a link to that information. Deleting a post and simply saying "affiliates should quit spamming" smacks of poor moderation.

Quote:
Either way, I'll probably have a bit of a PM pow-wow with the mods as they likely know a bit more about this than I can see from the surface. I'm in and out a lot this afternoon/evening, so it might not going to get sorted out in the next couple of hours - it would be cool if people could cool it on the "Rapini sucks" posts and Tweets (A "Rapini is the nut low mod...He lets the littlest amount of power go to his head and should be removed as a moderator." Tweet within an hour or two of the deletion? Really??) until we can have a discussion about it.
Considering the (at least perceived) lack of responsiveness to this moderator's (no quotes - I am playing nice) actions in the past, while the above actions may seem aggressive, they are understandable.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:37 PM   #219
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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The false accusation of spamming did not help either.
The site's terms and conditions say: "Posts made with the intent of the promotion of any goods or services, including other websites, will be deemed spam and will not be allowed."

So, it is probably a fair accusation.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:39 PM   #220
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

Thanks BigSkip for the constructive post (seriously).
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:44 PM   #221
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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Thanks BigSkip for the constructive post (seriously).
I was drunk.

Spoiler:
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:58 PM   #222
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

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If he receives a free entry, a free meal, or even non-monetary gain in the form of increasing his reputation/profile by treating him as a celebrity, it would be reasonable to treat him as a de facto employee for the purpose of the bounty event.
I got a free hat one morning at CAZ just for being me. Am I a defacto employee or just an affiliate?
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:49 PM   #223
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

Back on topic, how did you make a leap of logic From a long time poster announcing he earned a bounty To he's shilling for the tournament. That is news and that is a personal life event that is presumably relevant to most MD Live posters.
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:56 PM   #224
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

Alright everyone knock it off. Rapini, LLSNL regs, etc. The trolling/insults stop now. I'll delete any more that pop up, regardless of who makes them. Let Bobo post his final determination of the situation after our "pow-wow" (which we're having right now).
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:29 PM   #225
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Re: The LCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)

Serious post:

As I've said before, I'm fine with people sniping at me in the Moderation Discussion Thread. That's part of what it's here for. So unless it gets to the point that it's not constructive / overly repetitive, I'd appreciate the other mods leaving those kinds of posts alone.

@Randal_Graves, if I had been on a computer instead of phone I'd have PMed you after I deleted the posts to ask if you were receiving any benefit/compensation for being in the tournament. "As played," what I saw was I deleted the post and then you posted about it again, then I deleted again, then posted letting you know to not post anymore and then the troll parade started.

The posts you made weren't allowed because you said in your initial post that you were receiving a benefit (the bounty), MDL is not a venue that advertises with 2+2, and your post also was self-promotional.

I apologize for not being able to get you the full story right away.
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