I keep my goddamn mouth shut in high stakes games. I don't even want to imagine the criticism I'd receive if I dared presume that they don't understand showdown. I don't get involved AT ALL, and I certainly wouldn't tell someone that it's his turn to show.

I say two things in most high stakes games:

"Thank you."

"Button's right."

Yeah, that's about what i'd have imagined. To be clear, my assertions about dealers running showdowns are only applicable to games where the players aren't competent to run the game themselves, which is to say most lower-stakes games.

Has there ever been a time when you've had to give a high-stakes player a little nudge? If so, what happened and how was it received?

I'm just curious. I don't deal many high-stakes games, and all the guys I know who play high-stakes are pretty friendly with one another. No real arguments and pretty straightforward play. I just have to guess that at some time, somewhere, there was a drunk or inexperienced player venturing into high-stakes for the first time, and didn't play so well with others.

it isnt a problem in high stakes games because the first person says his hand or shows it.
in other games when the stalemate ensues it is the dealer whose job it is to immediately tell the first person it is their turn to show.

I still don't understand. You called and tabled, but your opponent said you didn't call and intended to muck face up, or that your hand should be killed for prematurely exposing it? (It's not absurd to think this could work.) Then you decided to fold after all, even though you must have had the best hand (since he was resorting to technicalities, not insisting that you put in the money)? I also don't understand why you didn't raise holy hell about being cheated. And finally i don't understand the relevance to the topic of this thread (showing or not showing your hand at showdown).

I'm not trying to pile on you, it sounds like a horrible experience, and you know you have to change your behavior to protect your hand.

I agree. But unfortunately we can't control dealers, and this is a players' forum.

I don't require those around me to be as sophisticated as me in order to hold myself to a high standard. As a player, I table my cards immediately, aside from the VERY rare exceptions where I must know what my opponent has. I don't care if the dealer sucks, I'm not going to play the "I called you!" game. I'm not a very good player, but I know when body language indicates that I've won.

Dealers: run your games better.

Players: don't wait for dealers to run their games better.

...but but but someone here said that information is totally useless and only required by people who cant beat the lowest of stakes.

I can't beat the lowest of stakes.

My strength is in home games, where I've known the players for years, and know what they think of me, and how to read their reactions of me, etc etc. But in a casino, I'm useless as a player, for a variety of reasons.

Regardless, there are few absolutes. As a rule, I think the stronger you are, the less you have to see. There are always reasons to know the cards, there's also information there. But I think the better we get, the fewer reasons we need, and the wider perspective we have on the net value of the information in context. I merely encourage people to keep pushing those boundaries.

Also, this practice tends to annoy people and makes tables less fun for me as a dealer, which is another reason I encourage people to simply table their cards immediately no matter what anybody else does.

FWIW, this thread has made me realize I've perhaps become a bit too lazy with this, and maybe I need to do more prompting at lower stakes. As a dealer, I very much dislike telling a player "show me your cards" so I resist against it. The full phrase is "it's on you, show or throw," but it's that first part that bugs me.

Plenty of pots are won by people because their opponents misread their own hands at showdown. I do not want to get in the middle of that. But at the same time, someone who doesn't want me to do that won't wait for me to prompt someone.

Just today I saw someone call while instantly tabling. The guy knew WTF was going on around him, no question about that.

There's a dealer in my game who turns to the person who's been called and says "he's called your bet." It seems to work very well.

The easiest answer is one you didn't mention: just sit there quietly until he shows his cards or the dealer says something. Now if you have the nuts you should probably show or else you'll be the local slowrolling douchebag. But otherwise, don't say anything, don't "show this time, but next time I won't", don't do anything. If he says "I missed", do nothing. If he mucks, hold your cards until you own the pot then muck your cards unseen. If he says "2 pair", do nothing. If he says "what you got", do nothing. The table will quickly realize that you show your cards in turn. No problem.

the last two posts are spot on. but i add if its a regular that shows when he is supposed to i tend not to make him do anything else when he says i missed, as i then show and take the pot. otherwise him and others will do that to me and i dont want that.

i just wait. that is the way it is. plus i may ask the dealer who shows first if he doesnt do his job of immediately asking the person who bet to show if he stalls.

I imagine Ray plays in games where the bettor will show when he sees Ray waiting.

These showdown staredowns are almost exclusively low stakes games, almost exclusively Hold'em.

Wait for 2 seconds. If the guy doesn't show, usually just turn my hand up and stop wasting time. If I especially want to see it or I'm just tired of villain never showing, "called you."

Another option: without showing "I've got xxx (always the truth), what do you have?"

I like to say even when not in the hand "Ok who is least ashamed of their hand?"

Didn't read most of the thread but I had a situation like this come up last time I played a live tournament. It was an HPT tournament and I'll probably never play one again just because of this.

The details of the hand aren't super important, basically I hero-call w QJ in position OTR vs the BB on 97552. Obviously I don't want to show my hand too bad, I know the casinos rules are last aggressor shows. After I called the villian is already looking to muck his hand but stalling a bit, the dealer is visibly irritated at the situation and he just says "SHOW YOUR HANDS!" young villian sheepishly turns over K8 and I frustratedly just muck my hand.

I proceed to pretty much go ape**** on the dealer and floor explaining to him how wrong it was to say that. The floorman completely defended what the dealer did but he was somewhat empathetic about it at least. Isn't the dealer supposed to say something more like "Last aggressive action shows first".

What can I even do in a situation like this to protect myself? Besides unreg pre and tip alot less when I win the tourney.

You are very easily tilted, if losing to a better hand at showdown gets you this worked up.

It wasn't that part that tilted me at all m8, it just seemed like the dealer should say something besides SHOW YOUR HANDS!

at all stakes these waiting games happen from some people. if you dont let them get away with it they then tow the line.

You are very easily tilted if you get that upset over this.

"One player to a hand please dealer."

when the dealer just says show your hands. then it is time to ask him if he knows who is supposed to show first

If I check behind on the river I usually flip my hand up right away, assuming it has SD value.

If I call the river I'll handle it differently depending on my opponent. If he's worse than average and acts sheepish after being called then I don't want to embarrass him or give him any reason to leave so I'll show quickly.

If he doesn't suck I sit there. If he asks about my hand I tell him the sooner he tables his hand the sooner he'll find out.

When two players (assuming they don't suck; I give bad players more slack) get into the always dramatic 'what do you have?' game I invoke IWTSTH. The best part is explaining "I don't care what anyone had; I'm just ready to play the next hand."

The dealer should say "muck or show" to the bettor. Don't tell the bettor what to do. Tell him his options and let him know everyone is waiting on him.

I don't expect this to happen very often but that's how it'd go down in my utopian world.

This is complete bollocks. At showdown simply wait for the villain to show his hand. You are not delaying the game, the table won't give a ****, they will tell him to do so as well (as, I hope, the dealer will).