2/5 nlh. I'm raise 15 preflop on CO, villain in sb calls (relative unknown at that time, but he had moved seats three times in the past 20 minutes to find the perfect seat to get position on perceived bad players at the table). I have 10dJd 10j

pot 32

flop 9h 10s js. x, I flop top 2 and cbet 25, he calls.

pot 82

turn 3d, villain shakes head and sighs, checks. I quickly check my top 2 back solely because of the tell.

river 8d

villain checks. I check back as there is 4 to a straight. villain announces K high (rule in the cardroom is that if no aggresive action on river, player oop shows first), however in these spots out of goodwill I will always show when villian announces air oop. I showed my top 2 to claim the pot, and he tables Kd7d, dealer awards pot to me, nobody at the table said anything. move on to next hand

when next hand is dealt, villian suddenly claims that he just realised he had a lower straight on the previous hand (I honestly did not realise, neither did anyone at the table as well as the dealer). floor was called, ruling was that it was the previous hand and new hand has been dealt, so i wasnt obliged to return the pot. however, I did the right thing and offered to give the pot back to him, because I'm a nice guy.

I was also slightly ashamed at the time as it seemed that I had knowingly kept quiet when the other guy tabled a wining hand. It was so uncharacteristic of me but I could not figure out what went wrong and why had I overlooked his straight (as did everyone else on the table)

Something did not feel right, I was asking myself why did everyone overlooked his straight? It was only 15 minutes later that I realised that all that happened was because he announced K high which prompted me to table 2 pair, and at that point the pot was already pushed to me by dealer. He tabled K high which indeed looked like a missed gutshot to the higher straight, but nobody cared about the 7. nobody questioned that my 2 pair was good when he announced K high and indeed showed a K in his hand.

later on, the villain had played extremely tight, seems to know the fundementals of the game, and had never showed his hand. which means that

1. he would have never called 25 into a 32 pot for a bare gutshot oop on a two tone flop. he clearly knew he had a double gutter

2. there was no reason for him to table K7 AFTER I've already been awarded the pot, especially the main reason he announced K high when he had to show first (or any player that announce but not show in similar situations), is because they do not want to show their cards/they feel slighly embarrassed about that hand. Tabling his hand after all these does not make any sense.

3. the shaking of head and sigh on the turn was clearly a reverse-tell/hollywood. he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew I was capable of picking up tells. he had done so to get a free river card. he knew he had 8 outs, Qs and 8s. It is unlikely he would have overlooked the 8 on the river

I felt that I should not have given him the pot because looking back it was clear what he was doing. playing devils advocate though, maybe he genuinely thought he had K high when he announced, and straight away realised he had a lower straight, but did not want to show immediately as it will make him look bad, and therefore purposefully delayed pointing out the entire thing to make it look like a genuine mistake. However I think it is unlikely because when you pay 25 on the flop to hit your double gutter, reverse-hollywood the turn to get a free card, you will be praying for a q or an 8 on the river. it is unlikely that he would have misread his hand.

on the other hand, if what he had done was indeed intentional, it seemed that the only thing he could gain out of doing so was to see my hand before showing his, which does seem a stretch too far to gain information especially when not all the players will table their hand immediately like I did. or maybe he was ashamed that he had checked a straight on the river????? what do you guys think? what would you have done in my spot?

What's the angle? He tabled a better hand and let you take the pot, only to bring it up during the next hand?

there was no reason for him to table K7 AFTER I've already been awarded the pot, especially the main reason he announced K high when he had to show first (or any player that announce their air in similar situations), is because they do not want to show their cards/they feel slighly embarrassed about that hand. Tabling his hand after all these does not make any sense.

the shaking of head and sigh on the turn was clearly a reverse-tell/hollywood. he knew exactly what he was doing and he knew I was capable of picking up tells. he had done so to get a free river card. he know clearly and was praying for the Q or the 8

You think the angle here is him trying to see your cards first, and in doing so he forfeited the pot lol?

I was surprised by the ruling, I thought it was always going to be awarded to him since he tabled the cards and everyone did see them. nvm lets close the thread. I agree that it seems too far stretched he had done this only for information.

I think that you don't really know what 'angle-shot' means. And I don't want that to sound rude but there's no 'angle' when you get pushed the pot and the other player doesn't say anything until the next hand has been dealt and the ruling will always go against him.

ETA: I see that you were surprised at the ruling but it's standard. Once the next hand starts the previous one is over for good.

true, maybe i was just mad at his reverse hollywood

If it's truly an angle, he's going to cause a fit as the pot gets shipped your way. He's never going to let it get to the next hand because anyone pulling any angle shot knows the rules and knows you won't be obligated to give the money back. There's really no advantage for him to let it be drawn out as long as it was as you described. Any angle is played to try to get more money from your opponent or to put less money in the pot (i.e. to keep a player with a better hand from betting).

Like I said, if he was truly running an angle on you, he'd have pitched a fit when the dealer shipped the pot the wrong way after he tabled his hand and WELL BEFORE the next hand was started. No way he's letting the chips get into your stack before going back and saying he had a straight.

very true

ok how can I delete this thread...mod help me do it lol

Don't worry, we've seen much worse.

yeah dude nothing to be embarrassed about, nobody is really giving you a hard time here.

As far as how to be a gentleman, I mean honestly I would just tell him it he paid for a lesson and he'll probably never make that mistake again. Absolute best case scenario I return his last bet or call. I had someone do this for me once. I was drunk and goofing off and betting with dog **** and actually hit. My hand was so bad I wasnt even counting outs and forgot I made a runner runner straight. I thought I was bluffing river & I throw my cards down after he calls with 2 pair saying I got nothing and as he's collecting the pot I said "wait, i had a straight" and was able to retrieve my cards and turn them up.

But then I said "you know what, thats what I get for dicking around and not paying attention, pot is yours". So he gave me back my river bet.

Which is it?

It's out of most people's range to do what you're describing. That said, keep the pot, because it's yours.

I mean, that sums it up.

I thought at most places if a pot was wrongly awarded they still try to fix it even if the next hand was started. One time a place I was at went and checked the tape or something and eventually reawarded the pot.

Bob Ciafonne's book on Poker Etiquette is the authority. Haven't read it all. I thought the awarding a pot is held pretty sacred though. But I've seen cameras used to make sure the pot was right, that's different than awarding it to another person.

Though I dunno, maybe I'd give up the pot live, maybe not. There's a non-zero chance that the guy was slow rolling, and did slow rolling himself out of a pot. If that was the case, I'd definitely take it. There is a certain strand of douchery in the villian's whole act that hero may have picked up on, or it may be entirely OP's imagination. Maybe, just maybe, villian expected someone else to point it out as part of the slow roll. It'd be so incredibly stupid though that hero must be imagining things.

OP doesn't mind the coming derail I'm guessing. I noticed two people splitting a pot in O8 where someone flipped a 3 giving him trips. He didn't notice the 3 and thought his QQ had a chance in the double-paired board. Other two had the AA in their hands. He had a winner. It happened fast, and rather than pipe up and take away the pot from the other two didn't say anything, but I'm pretty sure I was wrong/lazy not to say anything in that spot. I wish I had said something but in my defense it was tabled for pretty much exactly two seconds before he turned it over and mucked, and that's an awfully short period of time to be sure you saw a 3.

No in most places once the next hand starts any dispute on previous hands is over. If there's a dispute before the next hand starts that can't be resolved quickly they might set aside the pot and award it after checking cameras but that's super rare.

In a lot of place Hero wouldn't be allowed to ship the pot to V even if he wanted. The pot has been awarded and players aren't allowed to pass chips.

I had a hand way back where on the end there's a 4 flush on board, V bets $5, I call. He shows only the 9s I laugh and showdown my hand with the 8s. V mucks his other card irretreivably and the floor is called and rules that I get the pot AND I'm not allowed to ship it or even half of it to V which is what I wanted to do.

I don't see what the angle is here. Seems like two options:

1. The reverse tell on the turn, that by shaking his head as if he had a good hand he got you to check back turn in a spot you normally would've bet. I don't think this is an angle at all. If people are allowed to look for tells then people can give off fake tells as well.
2. Declaring his hand as just K-high at showdown. Given that he didn't claim the pot, this seems like it had to be an honest mistake. In any event, while overdeclaring your hand at showdown can be an angle, under-declaring really isn't. I guess by under-declaring he got to see your cards, but that's only a slight angle IMO. Like if he had said something like "K-high", waited for you to show, then said "K-high straight" that would be pretty douchey, but not really an angle since the best hand is winning the pot.

As to whether you give the money to him, I could go either way. I'd probably give him half of it but if you're annoyed enough by his antics keep it.

If he tabled his hand right away, it could be blamed on the dealer but in this situation it's pretty much his own fault. If he doesn't realize in time that he has a winner, too bad, he has no right to the pot

Also, it would depend on the house rules obv, but I have never seen pots redistributed from one player to another after the next hand had already started

I don't think he purposely announced a losing hand just so he can see your hand.

I think you did the right thing by giving him the pot, especially if there is a table full of witnesses. But to suggest he was angle shooing you just so he can see your hand and continue to let the pot get pushed to you on purpose is ludicrous.

OP also thinks the angle shot occurred after the turn, when V missed his draw and then shook his head like a guy who missed his draw.

I don't know why you would perceive someone nodding their head and signing in an obvious manner as anything reliable. I wouldn't take any obvious behaviour at face value at a poker table. I feel like this is something basic about live poker, no?

That's not what he thought was the angleshoot guys.