I have never played at these electronic tables and the good lord willing will never have to. If you want to play like that then just stay in your house and play online poker. It's completely worthless. The thing I love about playing real poker is being able to see your opponent handle his chips and even more just sitting there having chips in your hands to play with. Not to mention the feeling of having that monstrous stack to intimidate people with right in front of you. When you take both hands to shove in a large amount it is going to make someone think. You sitting there at a machine going *click* *click* is not as much fun. If you do that just sit in your house and play online

What's the point of going to a casino to play on those machines? The whole point to play cards at a BandM is for the the experience. If you want to play on a pocer tec machine then sit at home and play full tilt. It's a waste of gas money. I played on them once and it was absolutely the fakest poker experience I ever had.

Live is way more fun, and banter at the table just isn't the same without a dealer. I told one of the poker rooms I play at that if they got those machines, me along with a lot of other people would never come back!

There is nothing better then live poker with dealers, chips and cards. It's like the first warm day of the year. Nothing better then it!

Recently played on a cruise ship and hated every moment of it. I felt the games actually played slower than normal, the software was laggy at time as well. Sure no tipping, but trying to explain to everyone how to login, play and do anything is a pain. People would just sit there with their cards not even knowing its their turn.

The worse part was trying to get a game going. No one wants to sit at a table and wait for people to sign in and play. I think dealers are too important to poker, I was on a packed cruise and we had a hard time finding 4 people to start the game.

I would love for Cherokee to have actual cards, but until they change some laws its not going to happen.

Just visited the Cherokee poker tables for a few days. I loved them although I didn't think I would. I thought it would be like online play except for only one table in play. I found it far more like a normal dealer table than I expected. The technical differences from a dealer table were all in favor of the machine (faster, accurate, better view of chip counts across the far side of the table, no tipping, etc.) but the most unexpected difference was in the social aspect of the game.

I expected it to be all heads down and silent but found that having 10 people at the table instead of 11 didn't really change much. I think we covered all the normal topics (baseball, basketball, wives, comp comparisons, etc.) the same as any normal dealer table. The social aspect was very much the same.

Given a choice of the same game on a dealer table or an electronic table I'd now choose the electronic version. In the days I was there this topic came up many times at the table. I don't think I met anyone who didn't like the electronic tables. A few guys said they just couldn't sit at a table without chips so they brought their own to rattle and play with while they were there. LOL

Some dealers are showmen and are awesome entertainers. In those cases I'd rather have that dealer but in the vast majority of cases I'm ok giving up the dealer for the other benefits. YMMV

My review on poker tek tables from harrahs cherokee thread:

Thoughts and opinions on pokerpro tables @ harrahs cherokee nc

Pokerpro does a very good job of blending many of the positives of both online and live play. It however also has it's problems including some of the best reasons to play live or online as well, so it isn't without its own faults and short comings.

Lets start out with the positives:

The interface is very easy to use aside from really needing something other than your finger to press the buttons; fingernail, chips, card all work well. Being able to see everyone's exact stack size, as well as the pot size is very nice to have live. Even though I'm pretty good at calculating this on the fly live, having it there allows me to allocate more time into thinking about other things.

Having a built in time bank is a ****ing godsend for live poker. Nothing can be more frustrating sometimes than those players who take 2 minutes every hand to make every decision. The play on the pokerpro tables is much faster (40-50 hands per hour), especially post flop, with the max time any player can take to act is 45 seconds I believe.

No angling/people trying to get fancy with fake checking/betting. This is self explanatory but the computer dictates has the final say on all actions so you never have to worry about someone checking with a stack of chips in their hand etc. Cuts out a lot of the bull**** that people try to pull live, very nice and subtle positive to the pokerpro tables.

I personally played smaller stakes online, having to pay off large amounts of student loans really stifled my ability to increase my bankroll to the point where I felt comfortable moving up limits. Playing 1/2 live puts a lot of my bankroll at risk as I usually like to have 100 buy ins for any limit I'm playing. For any player who plays 10nl-50nl online and is forced to play live no to try and make a living, not having a minimum rake and not having to tip dealers makes the transition much easier. Going off my own general policy of tipping 1$ per winning hand, and the no minimum rake + the tables ability to take 25 cent increments instead of rounding up to the dollar I'd say I saved anywhere between 150-200$ in 20 or so hours of play. This alone is massive for someone in my position. This matters much less if you are playing 2/5 or 5/10 live, but for someone trying to win consistently at 1/2 live these 2 factors make it go from fairly tough, to very doable.

Now lets move on the negatives:

The biggest downside to the electronic tables is that you won't get the random dead money walk ins/drunks that you do at most normal tables. In most poker rooms you can always count on the occasional random person or drunk to walk by and just get the urge to sit down and play poker (eventually dumping off all the money they sat down with). With the pokerpro tables this will simply rarely ever happen. For a drunk or a random person, going to the cage to put money on their card, then figuring out how to press the buttons (for the drunk at least) is a daunting task that requires much more effort than sitting down and getting chips like in most rooms.

This didn't happen at all to me, but it did on another table. With anything electronic there is always the possibly of hardware/software malfunctions. The downside of this should be obvious, as it could completely ruin play. The pokertek guys spent an extensively long period working on one of the tables to try and fix it. Hopefully this isn't something that happens often.

Final Verdict:

Ultimately for people trying to make a living at 1/2 live and don't have the bankroll to comfortably play 2/5 pokerpro tables are incredible alternative to online play and much better than normal 1/2 live tables. If you are playing 2/5 and up the edge pokerpro tables have is probably much more negligible. As per live vs online, I will always personally prefer online play. I will however say this, if online play was available and I lived close to harrahs cherokee I would definitely try to play live much more than I would if it was a regular poker room (if I was playing 1/2).

I didnt read the whole thread, so maybe this has been mentioned, but my first thought on Black Friday was that pokerpro tables should be set up for multi-tabling with other tables in the casino/poker room.

I think you hit an important point. I like to see a table moved out of the poker room and in the middle of the slot machines. Make it easier and less intimidating for the drunk gambler to take a seat. Install a bill accepter so you don't have to approach the cage. This works for roulette at many casinos. They really got to try new ways for attract players.

I played at Cherokee once for about 5 hours, and I'm pretty sure there were people there that had never played live poker before. Getting it in happily on the flop with ace high with a rag, cause they had an ace. So you may not get the drunk poker players, but you do get the slots players who don't understand there is a strategic component to poker.

would love to see 3 tables set up in the middle of slot areas. would be great for getting the odd newbies on the tables

I played on one of these machines on a cruise ship. They had it so you could feed bills into the machine but you have to go to the casino cage to cash out.

The software seemed slow at times and I did a few misclicks. The machine also took a max rake of...... wait for it $15. Why did I play? Well the games were so juicy on this cruise ship and I was bored in the evening.

I think there is a market for it as other people have already stated. For the PLO games or perhaps games that are rarely spread or micro stakes. I think poker is best played with a dealer and chips. I feel like most of the time ppl would have their heads down and just be looking at the screen.

I would play on it again, but only if they had no actually poker table.

I'm going to add my vote for getting rid of the E-Tables. You say you cannot, sounds like a contract issue.

If that is true, you have a serious problem. Yes, I am a dealer but that is not the issue, the fact is that anywhere that E-Tables have competed with live dealt games, they have failed.

Trump AC, Excalibur, Hollywood Park, WinStar (I have personal experience to reference from here), and many others. They all tried E-Tables and they all ended up ending the relationship.

When Excal put in the tables, they revamped the entire room and fired or moved all their live dealers to other locations within the casino or other MGM casinos. Excal then advertised everywhere. They had nightly tournaments, strip poker nights, promotions out the wazoo and after less than 12 months, they closed the room. They got rid of the E-Tables and went looking to re hire their dealers. They now run a live dealt poker room once more.

An MGM official said: "Players prefer live dealers...".

Whoever thought the E-Tables in your room could compete against nearby live dealt games failed to do the required market research. If that was you, sorry, but that's my opinion.

I even read a press release from PokerTek that stated they had shifted their marketing focus away from any location that would have to compete with live dealt poker.

I believe the E-Tables have a niche, it's on cruise chips, and locations that do not permit live dealt games.

I think Venice10 may have a point about looking for another job if you cannot get rid of the E-Tables.

I agree with all of the comments above about how live players hated the machines. They only lasted a few months at our casino. First they tried cash games, then just SNGs, then they got rid of them.

The main problem was people would say "if I wanted to play on a computer, I would do it at home".

But I wonder if there could be a new niche opened up with the Black Friday stuff (assuming OP is in the US). What if you catered to the online players who hate playing live? When the tables were in the casinos before, the online players were at home, so really only live players tried the tables.

You could try and emphasize the greater number of hands/hour; no delays as people act our of turn, etc; and of course (with apologies to all the dealers reading this), no tipping. So the theme would be sort of like having the "next best thing to playing online".

Not saying it's a great proposition, but if you're stuck with the tables, you might give it a shot.

/thread



EDIT. Nothing wrong with Tables it was the Venue they were at.

we had a nice pot limit omaha thing going on for a few weeks (2+2).(kinda)


But I challenge your statement that it was the tables and not the Excalibur.

I'm sure 2 million college kids all over america have heard stories of the awesomeness that is O'sheas beer pong.

Does not mean more than 8 ppl play on any given night....

Excalibur promoted beer pong for how long and how hard...... are the 3 tables still there (if so they be empty)

lol 2 maybe 3 tables running on a weekend 1-2 of them being 2-6 spread (the king of primm)

Bottom Line. The room sucked live, It was a little cooler and high speed with the electronic tables, Now it sucks again.

Of course tourists just drool over the amazing 2-6... I hear someday they might get rid of the stud table at the El Cortez so they can have 3 1-3-6 games going on a saturday night.

Put them at the Mirage (which is already a dead horse) and if things don't pick up....then yes Kill them.

I'm just tired of the whole "well the Excalibur proved it....) Did not prove squat no one went in before the tables, no one went in during the tables, and no one goes in now without hte tables.

If all that was being compared was the Excal, I would say you had a point but the fact is, there were a number of attempts to place the E-Tables in several different locations. In most cases, anywhere they were in competition with live dealt games, they were removed.

I listed a number of those other locations but you only referred to Excal, that's where your argument fizzles.

Oh and comparing poker with Beer Pong, what's with that?

I dont get the argument " I go to the casino to feel the chips and cards". . . Reall??? thats why you go to the casino and play cards?? I obviously get the argument, people are used to playing poker a certain way and have come to enjoy it, but the electronic tables improve the game so much it pisses me off to no end when people refuse to give them a try. Its an improvment, saves money, gets you more hands, etc etc. Also I feel like people are much more willing to donk off when its a click away. I really wish the borgata would get a few just to mess around with but I highly doubt they are going to mess with such a great room

If they televised one tourney that used the e-table, it would be the biggest marketing boom ever for these tables.

What this company needs to do is sponsor a WSOP event using these tables. Throw a few $100K in the prize pool. Once people start seeing their favorite TV pros playing the e-table, they will fill. Marketing for these tables is terrible.

This is actually a really good idea, but not for WSOP. "If it's not broke, don't fix it" type of thing.

And it shouldn't be an online company that puts it on. You want to keep that seperation of church and state.

All of that being said, one of the major strip casinos could be very succesful with this. Put a few tables in the middle of slots. The noise would suck for serious players, but well worth it imo for the slot players that would try their luck. Hold a televised tournament, but it doesnt even need to be a big deal. ~100 runners with a few big names

The problem is: How do you get an honest poker game. Having paid dealers is a solution that works. E-tables are here but for now, people wants to keep the old solution.

The problem is: How do you keep food cold so it does not spoil. The solution was the ice box. When refrigerators first came out, most people wanted to stay with the ice box. But the refrigerators won.

The problem is: How can we have completely our own choice of music in a moving car. The solution was eight track. When cassettes first came out most people wanted to stay with eight tracks. But cassettes won.

If you are old enough to remember when video tapes first came out, there was VHS and Beta. Beta tapes were smaller and provided a better picture; overall a better product. Somehow VHS tapes knocked out Beta.

I'm a fan of e-table poker, but if the companies can't get a marketing plan together there will be no traction.

True. There must be other examples we could find of the weaker product winning in the end. But there will also be more examples of the better product winning after a poor start against an established opponent.

oil lamps: gas lights ( It will explode!)
gas lights: electric lights ( It will kill you!)
horse and buggy: car ( It is not dependable.)
file cabinet: computer ( We don't need it.)
mules: tractors ( It is too expensive.)
dealers: e-tables (There are no chips nor cards.)

In any case, there will be more companies with better less costly products and new marketing plans.

My bad posting a game of skill (beer pong) against a game of luck (pokerz)

My bad posting a game of honor (beer pong) against a game of cheating, deception and angleshooting (pokerz)

My bad posting a game hawt college chicks play (beer pong) vs a game of Kathy Liebert

My bad posting a game where MEN drink Pabst and "The beast" vs "uppity, grumpy folk" drink their "uppity single malt scotch"

My bad posting a game we we use the same dirty scummy cups, balls and pitchers over and over and over again drinking off the floor (beer pong) vs Having to change your playing equipment everytime some whino get's 3 bad hands in a row or their is a dent in the card (poker)


Attempted to place ????? can you define attempted to place.....

PokerTek : "would you like to try our new E-tables" ?
El Cortez/Wynn/whoever : "no"

well we tried..............

I can't fathom how an "attempt" to place tables (which is not even defined) as the tables being a failure. Other than the fact that they are like the XFL (well actually the vegas XFL team was popular)

Again NO ONE went into the excalibur before the tables, during the tables, and after the tables.....

But you know what... Excalibur NEVER had Pot Limit Omaha running "before the tables" and don't have it running "after the tables".

Hwang took his monies somewheres else. Maybe where Red Bull is free. Sobe just don't cut it for the uppity folk.


EDIT meh poker is skilzz but me thinks u gonna quote that before you reads this. Beer pong is MORE skilzz... you have to drink, make shots, and pick up college chickz not K Lieberts

EDIT 2 Lieberts 1000000000000000000x better pokers player than me. FWIW she's 10000000000000000 times hawter than me. But that's a different forum

Several big names were spokespersons for the tables when they first came out including Doyle, Antonio, Jennifer Harmon etc. They had an exhibit at the WSOP one year.

This would be easier if you posted in English.

Okay, by attempts to place games, I mean they placed E-Tables and they were rejected in a relatively short time.

They attempted to place them permanently but they were not successful, is that clear enough for you?

E-Tables have failed to be successful in locations where poker players have a choice between E-Tables and live dealt games. It's as simple as that.

The fact is the company announced a policy shift in maketing after the Excal experiment failed. They decided to no longer market the tables where they would have to compete with live dealt games.

Like it or not, the company that owns, builds and sells the E-Tables has accepted the above as reality. Maybe it's something that others can start doing as well.