Ahh, the old "now we're getting dealt more hands, thus seeing more big hands per hour, thus....rigged!" theory, of course they tend to leave out the first part of that. I've been playing them at 40-50 hands per hour, roughly 2x what you get out of a dealer. It's the same phenomena you see online. Yet the theorists will keep the conspiracy theories coming and keep ignoring the obvious reasoning as to why they're seeing more big hands in the same length session.

There are lots of folks that know far more about the randomness of PokerPro than myself. Having said that, I have caught myself saying in my mind,"this S#I* is RIGGED." Only to come back to my senses and realize the truth, that Kiko so skillfully laid out in very understandable terms. There is no incentive to RIG the game, the casino is getting all they can get without rigging action into the table and I doubt they could pull it off in a way someone couldn't expose,...ie,it would be more obvious if it was rigged. I have even shared the table with a few since April that try to convince everyone that the game is rigged or that it isn't random,and yet.......they play. The tables are great. They are especially great for O8,Stud,HORSE and a few others that make live deal a slow and arduous task. But then you will see more hands per hour ....a lot more, and you will see some monster beat downs too, and it will have absolutely nothing to do with any program in the computer.

I don't understand why some people get so incredibly worked up hating on etables and insist that isn't real poker. I can see not wanting to play on one, but I don't see the basis for such a strong reaction.

It's B&M's own scaled-down version of religion, politics, etc. (Well, this and tipping.) For whatever reason, a segment of the population is completely incapable of processing and expressing rational thoughts about the subject matter. That's why we needed a containment thread.

I'm tempted to add "what do you think about electronic poker tables?" to my battery of on-the-spot litmus tests for intelligence.

My .02.

For O8, they are, by far, the best option.

bobaby

I did not say they were rigged. Anyone who plays multiple tables online knows the numer of hand per hour effect. I'm just saying my experiencr has been as described....

My thought is if I'm not playing with cards and chips why wouldn't I just play online at home?
All three aspects of poker have your list of 4.
While this setup does have “live players” traditional live also has chips and cards and a dealer/table manager.

I've recently been displaced to the tri cities of VA/TN and Asheville NC from Vegas and seriously miss live poker.

I heard that Cherokee had live poker but then the person tried to explain to me that it was all electronic.
I didn't really understand why someone would go to sit at a table of computerized poker.

I guess it's half way between traditional live and online.
You get to be physically present with other players but you're playing on a computer.
Which for me isn’t an enticement to drive to Cherokee

That's not good.

If you wanted to play online poker, you could do it in the comfort of your own home. Most people go to the casino to play live poker with dealers dealing cards and chips to throw around and stack, not to push buttons and stare at a screen.

Poker Pro tables were a lot more then just pushing buttons. Facing your opponent provided many of the same advantages as live dealer tables, and for a winning player, seeing more hands per hour only increased profits

I get that point but the mass of recreational players, having a live dealer and stacks of chips to play with seems funner than the screen.

On less relevant note, the way villain handles chips could also be a tell.

Recreational players want the full live poker culture experience, and advantage players will ultimately go where the recreational players go.

q/q

At show down the e-tables award the pot to the winning player 100% of the time.


The e-tables players do not come here to complain about dealers' errors.

I'd like half and half. Put lower stakes, IE something like .25/.50 and .50/1 on a e-table, where the rake might not be enough to cover the cost of dealers.

The thing is, when I go to play at a B&M, I go to play with real dealers, real table and real chips... It's the experience of it that makes it all worth while.

Do you have documentation to prove that?

There have been no instances, not one, of a malfunction that prevented the pot from getting pushed to the winner?

A machine did not malfunction in the middle of a hand and it required Tech Support to come in and fix it before the hand could be finsihed?

Never a case where the hand was not able to be completed after the problem was resolved?

Never?

You're positive of this?

Cause 100% would mean NEVER, right?

Never a case where only 7 of the screens on a table worked at the same time so you could never get a full table?

As far as complaints by players, anyone here recall the Exacl and what MGM had to say about players prefering live dealers?

Which is why the Excal has a poker room with live dealers once more.

E-Tables have their place, they will fill a niche on cruise ships and in locals where machines are allowed but live table games are not.

Let's fire all the Dealers, Floors and Shifts and replace them with a couple of Board Girls. Then we can have the E-Machines made in China and fire some more workers.

I for one am against interaction with robots. The science fiction has become reality.

Does anyone think it would be a reasonable idea to lock the other major e-table threads yet link to them from here (with a Mod adding the links to the lead post)? This might help give new readers an idea what's already been said (if they care to skim/read the old material). This might help focus the discussion and hopefully encourage some fresh perspectives.

I love the argument of people saying no dealer errors, I have never been to a game where an error wasnt fixed. Honestly I prefer live cards and a dealer. No one is there to enforce the rules of table behaviour with an e-table, lets also not forget how easy it will be for teams to work on e-tables or collusion.

Sorry dealers are more than just there to deal cards they are like referee's to the game and we need them, and I prefer them. I also like chatting with them when they sit down and my table is completely dry.

I've played on these a decent amount and have seen enough software and hardware problems to make me never want to play on them again.

Not to mention the fact that I just flat out like real chips and cards wayyyyy better.

I made this post 4 months ago regarding Montreal. It is basically official, Montreal has basically gotten rid of the PokerTek tables. Real life example of why they are NOT the waive of the future.

They were there first for a year, have lower rake, less wait, all advantages over live dealers, but yet still died out.

I've tried the e-tables and don't mind them, and if the action in my local PokerPro e-table poker room (Four Winds) was considerably better than the live dealer poker room (Blue Chip), I would go there. But oftentimes I'll go to Four Winds on a Friday night and there are 1-2 tables.

As for more hands/hour, I don't necessarily agree. I've been sitting at e-tables where it takes longer because someone doesn't know how to work the screen properly, or the screen is glitchy so the person has to touch what he wants multiple times, or the person stands up and forgets to log out so we all have to wait while his clock runs down.

I don't think e-tables are the same as online poker. I still engage with other people when I'm sitting down at an e-table, and chat it up about whatever topic. I will say that I haven't experienced as much banter as in a live dealer room. I also think there are still live tells at an e-table, whether they be general ones such as someone's hands shaking while betting, or unique ones such as whether they touch the screen with their fingers or their playing cards.

FWIW, Pokertek have kind of given up on the 'electronic' tables vs. live dealers debate and have effectively conceded that, when given a choice, players prefer live dealers.

The following are direct quotes from James Crawford (PokerTek President) and Mark Roberson (PokerTek CEO):

"In the past, the Company’s strategy has been focused primarily on targeting and converting manual poker rooms in competitive traditional markets. What we found was that our retention rates were exceeding 80% in situations where competition is limited and markets with a high density of manual poker rooms our historical retention rate has been closer to 30%."

"We changed our focus to those markets with limited competition, including international and emerging markets, which offer greater earnings potential for PokerTek"

They are currently making a number of installations in Mexico, where poker with cards is not legal.

You are answering me to prove the negative.

If I am wrong you should be able to come up with one documented case of
an E-table awarding a pot to anyone beside the winner.

Give one documented instance.

If you can.

Do you think dealers make more mistakes per hand than an e-table?

I do not expect you to answer the question on dealers versus e-table mistakes rate.

I have personally witnessed a player having their hands folded by the e-tables as they timed out whilst struggling with the interface trying to make a raise. This would never happen in a live room.