Yesterday I was in a Pokerroom with tables where they had one "port" for tips and one port where they put the real money in. So where does the rake go?
The dealers putting the rake into their "bowl" without dividing it from the rest of the money. Furthermore, at the end of the hand, they just take the rake without tapping the table or showing the amount to the camera.
That was really strange for me and I think it opens up a lot of ways to cheat. I told my self to keep an eye on this but I literally didnt count once how much money they were taking. Granted, my concentration wasnt at its best, but the dealers are usually fast and know how to use their hands. Just crabbing some chips from the pot, put it to their other chips in their bowl and maybe putting some chips back out there. There is just no way to control them or to blame them for taking to much.

Normally, I would just assume that people probably get screwed there more often then not. But it was a Casino owned by the state with a lot more casinos in the country. Moreover, there was only one bowl for one table for the whole evening. The dealer didnt take the bowl with them when they left. So its pretty hard for a dealer to profit from cheating here, as long as he doesnt work together with the casino.
What do you think? Is that a absolutely no go?

What is a port and what is a bowl?

bowl = place where the dealer keeps "his" chips (dont even know what it is called in my native language)
port = If you put chips in there, they "disappear" in the table :-)

I've never seen a dealer tap the chips for the rake.

Here, we call where the dealer puts his tips, the toke box.

I'd ask the floor what is going on. If you don't like the answer, don't play there.

"bowl" is maybe the rack.

You admitted you weren't paying attention.

My assumption is that if it is Government run and is frequented by knowledgeable players that anything you noticed was not shady.

Not quite sure if I understand what you are saying.

By "bowl", do you mean the rack of chips in front of the dealer?

In Atlantic City, that is where the rake chips end up. But, they are taken out, as is the BBBJ dollar, (at least, this is how it is supposed to be done and should be done) of the pot by the dealer and placed on a white disk located on the table in front of the dealer's right side. That way the camera can see what is happening.

Then, they are placed from there into the rack. The tokes go into a box on the dealer's left, the BBJ dollar is dropped into a box on the dealer's right, and any cash received is dropped through a slot on the dealer's right.

Is this what you are describing? If so, no problem. If not then, as already mentioned, I would talk with the floor.

Lee

Yeah, I meant the rake of chips in front of the dealer. Never saw that being used for the rake before. But the bigger problem is that they dont display the rake they take. So there is no way to notice when the dealer takes the wrong amount (by mistake). Just imagine a unsorted pile of chips in the middle, someone bets, someone calls, while everyone is looking at the showdown the dealer takes a few chips and puts them in the rake of chips in front of him. Maybe take out a few smaller chips and put them back in the pot. That all happens in a few seconds and while I wasnt really concentrating, I was still more focused then 90% of the other players at the table.
I'm not saying that they cheat (on purpose). They probably dont. Still, they managed to create a procedure which could be exploited really easily and should be avoided in a casino.
Of course I could have talked to the floor. But since it was my first time there and it seemed to be standard procedure I would rather just leave then to argue. In hindsight, it just seems like a really stupid procedure to be doing in a professional pokerroom.

If you would please tell us where this poker room is, perhaps that would help whoever else is familiar with it to answer your question.

But, in general, I agree that it is strange that they don't set the chips aside first before putting them into the rack.

For one thing, the casino wants to know that the rake isn't being shorted - that the dealers are taking the right amount.

Lee

Valkenburg - Holland; Belongs to the "Holland Casino"-group. Dont know how they handle it in other casinos in Holland.

How is this for shady ---

Tonight I went to a 2/5 NLHE game in New York City. THE RAKE WAS 10% UP TO $15!!!! (actually that is pretty standard for a game in New York City).

But that wasn't the shady part. I busted out with my first $500. So I ask the guy who ran the game where the nearest bank was so I could get more denaro. This game was taking place in an apartment around the mid 20's on Lexington Avenue, just a regular two bedroom apartment in New York City mind you. He points me to the next room and says "there's and ATM in there." And sure enough there's an ATM machine in this guys' apartment. It's not like a bank ATM mind you but a little nicer than what you might find at a NYC deli. Stupidly enough I tried it twice and got no money from it. Guess it was cleaned out from the night before. My ATM card will probably get cloned from this joker who runs this game.

I had to run out around the corner and get my money out of a bank ATM up the street. At least I made my money back plus another $120. So I left up a little minus some tips for back massages.

The dealers allways count the pot and say what the rake is if any before taking it in the casino i play.
I sat at a cash table one night for around four hours with players coming and going buying in, changing notes etc until the guy next to dealer felt something drop on his foot when a new player bought chips. There was no box under the slot in the table so the dealers were just dropping cash into a pile on the floor.

While not widely in use here, taking rake and putting it in the dealer tray isn't unheard of. Dealers are trained to take the rake quietly and without drawing attention to how much money the casino grabs each hand, so don't let that bother you either.

If you're worried, keep an eye on him.

If you're curious of the rake structure, ask the floor.

I've never seen the rake go into the dealers tray. Where I usually play (Colorado), the dealers tray is strictly for making change. The rake gets stacked on a device in front of the dealer with a handle used to drop it into a box under the table after each hand is finished. Tokes and bad beat drop each go into separate boxes with slots on top. The total of cash and chips in the dealers tray, if no mistakes are made, always stays the same, which makes the accounting easy. Using the tray for rake would reduce the need for fills, but would make catching errors in making change quite difficult.

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Are you saying that the dealer has a place to put his tips in, but no separate box to put the rake in? I used to work in a club that had no rake box, so we put the rake on one side of the dealer tray, but I've never seen a casino that doesn't have a separate rake box.

By the way, what is the rake structure at Valkenburg for 1/2 or whatever the lowest NLHE cash game is? Aside from this port/box issue, would you recommend the cash game? I plan to be there for WPT Valkenburg on October 1-4.

At the casino I work in rake and BBJ go in the tray. We drop a red chip when we collect $5 BBJ dollars. Rake is set beside the rack until the pot is shipped, but unless you're looking for it you won't notice.

Doing the count on the tables is more of an art than a science, though.

tl;dr

Some countries handle it that way.

rake is indeed mixed up with casinos funds at float.
BBJP share is kept on separate part of the float (here the far right groove).

I assume the rake is figured out as the float is counted up. bbjp taken out, end of day value - start of day value == rake.

naturally fills and sold chips (which are both tracked) affect the above.

That alone would not push the room to any shade of gray in my book.