I'm particularly interested in dealers' opinions on this issue.

How much rope do you give two players who are verbally sparring? I recently played a tournament where a late arriving player mistook a discussion on a prior hand to be a discussion of the hand she was in and she had words with one of the players in the discussion. This disagreement went off and on until the lady got bounced a few hours in. It would veer from an entertaining spectacle to uncomfortable. If I, as a spectator, wanted to complain, should I have spoken to the players, the dealer, or the floor?

From what I have seen most dealers wont let this type of discussion go on for more than a couple of hands. But if it's not getting 'personal', abusive or slowing down the table then they may choose to let it slide until someone else chimes in.

There were no dealer changes in 'a few hours'?

From a players perspective I think that I would chime in after an orbit or 2 if I am offended and certainly if I see other players effected as well. I have no issue trying to speak for others.

If there had been a break in there, sure I would talk to a floor and have them talk to the dealer at the table during the break to assess the situation to see if they want to comment going forward.

If there was a couple of dealer changes and none of them said anything I would say that either they were 'trained' not to or it wasn't enough in their viewpoint to interfere. GL

There were dealer changes every thirty minutes and I forgot that the last dealer did say something, but he really didn't back it up.

As I was sitting next to the lady, I was probably the most uncomfortable of the remaining players.

I wonder if the dealers gave the man leeway because he was a reg and the lady was an out of towner who was leaving the next day.

It depends on the type of sparring. If its pretty lighthearted I'm happy to let it go until it looks like it may take a turn.

That doesn't seem to be the case you are talking about though. It can be hard because each individual comment may not be that bad so you don;t want to get the floor involved and you think it will just work itself out... but each of the players is determined to get the last shot in ..... And if each is giving as good as they are getting then I'm not feeling to badly for either of them. If its more one sided I'm quicker to involve the floor.

I don't give regulars more leeway for being regulars, but if a guy who is always a gentleman at the table is involved I may give it more leeway because I think he is more likely to end it on his own. If its a regular who is always a prick, well then I'm getting the floor involved the second that I think he has crossed line because this may be the day they finally toss his ass out.

I'm less likely to call a floor if its actually witty banter between them then if it is just nasty.

And lastly I nee dto factor in who is on the floor. The last thing I want to do is escalate the thing by calling a floor who isn't going to deal with it firmly.

My kind of dealer!

As a cash game player, I think we neither need self-important dealers who take it upon themselves to "solve" every little "problem," nor scaredy cat dealers who would rather lose customers than lose tips.

People get mad occasionally. Let them vent for a bit, find a polite way to de-escalate, and call the floor if necessary.

There are a lot of judgement calls there so casinos should care about the temperament and customer service skills of their dealers as much as their card handling skills.

It wasn't banter and the reg came off as the Phil Hellmuth of Kansas City. He also berated some other players when he was beaten by them, but he kept on the lady.

You know what to do next time ... protect your own game and end it. However, it does sound as if you would've given this guy a new target if you had spoke up. That is another factor for sure but it makes no sense to have this guy 'comfortable' while doing this at the expense of the rest of the table's ability to play their game too. GL

Why wait for the dealer? All you have to say is, "We're taking bets over here on which one of you two gets in the last word." You'll be surprised at how effective that is.

I've spent 15 years as a dealer trying to get poker players to "play nice". I give up. It's never going to happen. And why should I? It's not like any of you are going to quit playing poker over stuff like this. You just need to know, going in, that going to the cardroom to play cards means playing with people just like these two. You need to stop expecting/wishing, like I did, that they'll behave like adults.

I was a target briefly, but nothing like the lady was.

I was wondering what should be done because I have just recently come back to playing casino poker and I wanted advice on the best course of action.

Actually, as I am not playing to make a living or even to supplement my income, I actually would quit playing at this or any venue that allows such abuse to continue after a complaint.


I am basically giving them a do-over since I don't know how they, or I, should have responded. If it happens again, I will talk to someone and if nothing is done, I will stop playing there.

I play in casinos and avoid home games because I like having rules curbing outlandish behavior. At a minimum, I want something to be done if there is a chance that it will escalate beyond words spoken at a normal conversational volume, if there is abusive language, or if it is slowing down the game. I have no problems playing in a place that is strict enough to have a no-profanity rule.

I wait till they come to blows. When the floor asks me why I didn't say anything, I just say " I thought they were husband and wife".

I don't mind being the lightning rod in such cases, and usually egg them on so they focus their ire on me.

The key is to be subtle about it. Never deny anything you're accused of, just deflect. Highlight anything that reinforces his prejudices and keep quiet when contradictory evidence comes up.

What starts as a minor annoyance to him grows into a rock solid belief that you're the biggest idiot he's ever played with. Then he usually shuts up because his goal of feeling superior is well met.

Nobody at the table thought to say, "We/they aren't talking about you, it's a discussion about a prior hand."???

Depends on the casino... At LA casinos like commerce you would actually have to hit someone to remotely begin to get the staffs attention. A screaming match wouldn't even be a blip on their radar.

Actually, several of the players, including myself, said that very thing and she refused to believe it. "I just sat down so how do I know?". Hmmm, maybe because several people are telling you?

They both stopped talking about it directly after the lady's first hand was over, but the war continued.

I think I've written about this before, but earlier this year a guy was causing a scene in the poker room, and a seemingly nice older guy at my table informed me that the troublemaker is a regular, and a prick, and he is always causing problems ... and when security was finally called on the loudmouth, the kindly old gentlemen who had just explained all of this to me turns around and SHOUTS out to the whole poker room, "SHOOT HIM IN THE FACE!"

Pretty sure this is one of two ppl. Please pm me lol

Ha ha ha! Now I have to wonder whether the 'nice' old guy showed his true colours or the reg was such a world class douchebag that he'd twisted an otherwise nice guy into violently hating him.

This is one of the hardest parts of being a dealer (or a floor). It's total feel and generally we (casino staff) tend to land on the side of letting things be. It's a judgement call and a very fine line sometimes.

My base line would be genuine hostility or aggressive profanity. That's not behavior that is acceptable, and is likely to escalate. But it's truly case by case how to handle it. Especially as a floor - knowing the people involved, their history, intoxication, etc all plays into how I'm going to approach the specific situation.

Speaking as a floor:
Generally though, I'm leaving a situation like this with a simple message: this is the last time I'm coming over to deal with this informally. Next time people will be asked to leave. I don't care who started it or who already said what (it's 50/50 if I'll get the truth). But it's over now.

And then I let them yell at me privately and the game won't be disturbed.

Been dealing about 10 yr now. This type of thing is a judgement call and case to case, but I did learn thru the years a basic 'dealing code' if you would...
The golden rule: KEEP THE GAME MOVING.
When a game stops, sucks for everybody...the players, the dealers, the house, everybody. Understanding that, sometimes things happen.
Had a situation around year 2 or 3 of dealing where a lady and husband were fairly drunk and belligerent and seriously verbally abusing a canadian player who was getting lucky. Cursing, mean, terrible comments.
I decided to "fix the world" and yell at her and her husband to stop, then they didn't and I called the floor. The floor pretty much said "let's just play poker" and walked away...in other words, floor isn't going to do anything. So... The canadian player I defended didn't say a word of encouragement or thanks. Nothing. The lady and husband i yelled at were locals and tipped very nicely...but not to me that night or a few meetings later until we talked about it and cleared the air.
Not to digress, back to the incident, she goes on an insane run of cards and not only do I not get tipped, but the Canadian gives no thanks either. I learned a valuable lesson that day... Don't be a hero. Don't be a 'fix all things', 'nose in all things' dealer.
That's just one incident. But it's best for a dealer to remain as neutral as possible, getting involved only when absolutely necessary, and keeping the game moving.

Now, to heck with it. Unless A...they are slowing down the game, B...getting violent, or C... someone asks that I get involved and if A or B isn't present, I call the floor and don't get involved...they can verbally spar all they want, I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm a poker dealer. I don't get involved unless one of those three things happen.
The key thing I always ask myself is, is it grossly negatively affecting the game to the point that action is slowing down or stopping? If the answer is yes, I'll take some kind of action. If not, then it's pitch and grind.
yap

This is a bit short sighted. Your you may keep the game moving right this minute and you may think that keeps the tips flowing. But when the recreational player silentkly decides this isn;t fun anyomore and leaves the game (without making a fuss) or decides not to come at all the next time she has a free night it costs you money. And when enough of these people decide not to come that you have one less game going ... it costs you money..... and when the only game left in room is the one with with 10 of the worst behaving poker players you can find .... well you can thank your short sighted attitude about allowing abusive behavior at the table

While I agree with you generally, you really do have to look at the trajectory of an argument. If two people briefly exchange words and are content to let an argument die, it's correct to just leave it. If this some kind of infected wound that's just going to fester and leak pus all over, you gotta step in.

I agree with you and I think to a certain degree this is reflected in my earlier post. But I was responding to a dealer who basically said " Unless A...they are slowing down the game, B...getting violent, or C... someone asks that I get involved and if A or B isn't present, I call the floor and don't get involved...they can verbally spar all they want, I'm not a psychiatrist, I'm a poker dealer. I don't get involved unless one of those three things happen. "

and that is far different from thsi argument is going away in a second if I let it run its course

PM sent

If you cant do it in line at the store you cant do it in poker. Ive seen way too much craziness at the tables, if you acted like people ive seen then you should get cops called on you. There is nothing about a poker table that allows you to act up. Be respectful.