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Old 08-01-2010, 08:47 PM   #1
jackmayhoffer
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How common is "no flop no drop"?

I've been a pretty regular 2/5 player at the Borgata for the last couple years, but for the last few weeks I've Abeen playing at the newly opened poker rooms of Mt Airy and Sands casino's in Pennsylvania. I'm used to paying time, but currently the Sands and Mt Airy take 10% up to $5 + 1 for bbj. I'm fine with this even though it is $1 more than AC. Right now there are many dealers at those places who are very green, so charging time would be much worse.

One thing that is different between Mt Airy and Sands is that Mt Airy takes a rake even if there is no flop where Sands does not. So if I raise preflop and everyone folds, I still have to pay $1 rake. This seems crazy to me.
It's been a while since I've played a raked game, but I was pretty sure I've never seen this before. The Mt Airy poker room manager said she worked in AC before she came to Mt Airy and that is the way they did it there.

How common is this practice?
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:58 PM   #2
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

Dealers are supposed to rake in AC poker rooms whether or not there is a flop if there is at least $10 in the pot. But in my experience, most dealers do not rake blind steals at 2/5 NL even though they are technically supposed to. But strangely enough, it seems varies from dealer to dealer.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:25 PM   #3
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

stndrd
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:04 PM   #4
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

In Vegas it is not very common except for some of the most poorly run rooms (Mandalay Bay, Luxor, etc...)
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:33 PM   #5
jmark
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

It could be worse.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:37 AM   #6
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

I play in Southern California where a "drop" is the standard. Of the casinos that I have played in (nine or so), only two have "no flop no drop" policy. The rest take at least the jackpot drop whether or not there is a flop.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:35 AM   #7
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

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Originally Posted by jackmayhoffer View Post
So if I raise preflop and everyone folds, I still have to pay $1 rake. This seems crazy to me.
It's been a while since I've played a raked game, but I was pretty sure I've never seen this before. The Mt Airy poker room manager said she worked in AC before she came to Mt Airy and that is the way they did it there.

How common is this practice?
at places I've been to that do this, they aren't taking the rake, they're taking the jackpot drop. technically, there is a difference. really, it still sucks.

the argument I've heard is that every hand dealt must contribute to the jackpot so they pull that buck on every hand even if there is no flop and therefore zero chance that the jackpot can hit. the money isn't going to the house so it isn't rake

I'm not a fan though.
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:46 PM   #8
jackmayhoffer
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

At Mt Airy they only take the bbj if there is a flop. Actually had a dealer try to take $1 rake and $1 bbj, the floor came over and corrected him.
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:51 PM   #9
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It could be worse.
It could always be worse.
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:31 PM   #10
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

I play in NY. At that casino they rake after the flop, no flop = no rake. They only take for the bbj when the pot reaches $20, since a pot must reach $20 to qualify.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:33 AM   #11
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

In Atlantic City, Bally's has a "no flop no drop" policy, but Harrah's takes a drop if the total in the pot is $10 or more - drop or no drop. So, raise the blinds in a 2/5 game and the drop gets taken.

Lee
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:48 AM   #12
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

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Originally Posted by mfpaul View Post
at places I've been to that do this, they aren't taking the rake, they're taking the jackpot drop. technically, there is a difference. really, it still sucks.

the argument I've heard is that every hand dealt must contribute to the jackpot so they pull that buck on every hand even if there is no flop and therefore zero chance that the jackpot can hit. the money isn't going to the house so it isn't rake

I'm not a fan though.
Actually when I worked at the Bike as a prop/host earlier in the decade I convinced them to stop taking $2 before the flop in limit games such as 3/6 to 6/12 holdem. The change to $1 (and sometimes 50 cents in some games including the early days of no limit) was dropped down the regular house drop hole, not the jackpot drop hole.

I realize it's the opposite in most LA clubs and it may have changed at the Bike since I left.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:53 AM   #13
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

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Originally Posted by jackmayhoffer View Post
It could always be worse.
It can be worse indeed. You opened up an opportunity for me to shill my old story on the $1 pot which if re-written today would have to be adjusted to a zero pot.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:08 PM   #14
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

I have never seen a pot raked in AC if just the blinds were stolen, but most rooms do rake a significant pot even if there is no flop.

For example, a limper or two, one person raises to $20, another reraises to $80, everyone folds. The pot is officially about $45 and is raked.
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Old 08-14-2010, 06:18 PM   #15
jackmayhoffer
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

I was back at the Borgata this weekend for the first time since the Pennsylvania casinos opened. I really missed that place, just wish it was a little closer. Anyway, I spoke to a dealer about the Borgata's policy on "no flop no drop" and she said they only take a rake if there is a flop. However some other casinos in AC do take a rake without a flop. Borgata is obviously the gold standard when it comes to poker, and you would think other casinos who are competing would eliminate this rule. Oh well.
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Old 08-14-2010, 06:56 PM   #16
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

Obviously as a player I prefer a "no flop no drop" policy, but I'm curious what the reasoning is behind it.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:19 PM   #17
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

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Originally Posted by StackerBA View Post
Obviously as a player I prefer a "no flop no drop" policy, but I'm curious what the reasoning is behind it.
The reasoning might be as simple as that: trying to build a great room by satisfying players' preferences.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:22 PM   #18
[x] swanny
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmayhoffer View Post
I've been a pretty regular 2/5 player at the Borgata for the last couple years, but for the last few weeks I've Abeen playing at the newly opened poker rooms of Mt Airy and Sands casino's in Pennsylvania. I'm used to paying time, but currently the Sands and Mt Airy take 10% up to $5 + 1 for bbj. I'm fine with this even though it is $1 more than AC. Right now there are many dealers at those places who are very green, so charging time would be much worse.

One thing that is different between Mt Airy and Sands is that Mt Airy takes a rake even if there is no flop where Sands does not. So if I raise preflop and everyone folds, I still have to pay $1 rake. This seems crazy to me.
It's been a while since I've played a raked game, but I was pretty sure I've never seen this before. The Mt Airy poker room manager said she worked in AC before she came to Mt Airy and that is the way they did it there.

How common is this practice?
You should drive a little further to Mohegan Sun @ PD. 4 dollar max rake for 1/2 and 2/5 is 5 bucks every half hour. NO BAD BEAT JACKPOT! But there is a lottery machine upstairs.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:59 PM   #19
jackmayhoffer
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Originally Posted by Nepa View Post
You should drive a little further to Mohegan Sun @ PD. 4 dollar max rake for 1/2 and 2/5 is 5 bucks every half hour. NO BAD BEAT JACKPOT! But there is a lottery machine upstairs.
yeah, I was thinking about checking that place out. But I'm in north jersey. If I'm going to drive all the way there I might as well drive to AC.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:04 AM   #20
[x] swanny
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

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Originally Posted by jackmayhoffer View Post
yeah, I was thinking about checking that place out. But I'm in north jersey. If I'm going to drive all the way there I might as well drive to AC.
It's about an extra 35 min. from Mount Airy. For 2 dollars less rake per hand it comes down to how long are you planing on staying.
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:57 AM   #21
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

My current policy is no flop no drop in limit games. We do take a rake in NL games.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:44 AM   #22
jackmayhoffer
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My current policy is no flop no drop in limit games. We do take a rake in NL games.
That is a greedy policy.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:20 PM   #23
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

So is raising with the nuts.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:30 PM   #24
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Re: How common is "no flop no drop"?

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Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
I have never seen a pot raked in AC if just the blinds were stolen, but most rooms do rake a significant pot even if there is no flop.

For example, a limper or two, one person raises to $20, another reraises to $80, everyone folds. The pot is officially about $45 and is raked.
This sounds like the way it should be. In raked games the rake is determined by the amount of called action and usually includes a cap.

Here the pot contains about $45 in called action. If they take 5% rake capped at let's say $5 with the trigger points at $20/$40/$60/$80/$100 (as an aside the trigger points don't always have to follow a percentage) then a $2 "rake" on this pot is about right.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:33 PM   #25
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So is raising with the nuts.
Whatever you say.
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