Hi all,

I have recently decided to play Live instead of Online for some reasons, and I have problems handling the chips.

The place I play at usually issues me 25$, 5$ and 1$ chips for 100$ buyins.
Whenever I am short, and I come down to 25$ chips, I view it subconsciously the same as with the 1$ and 5$ chips.

I do not know why, but when i am down to like, 50$/bb, and the pot is like say, 35 or even 40bb and I am holding onto something strong, like TPTK, I could just call it off without thinking that, "Hey, I got reraised, V's range could be two pair, set, or that damn straight." I do not think like that, but instead, my mind says, that's it. You got top pair, you have no where else to go but, in. And I get it in knowing that I am beat.

Does anyone experience this strange quirk too? I have on several occasions lost my stack because of this, even with 100bb stacks I just bought in with.

No, I know it's not an issue with me not knowing the strength of my hands, but if there is something else about it, I feel, the difference between online and live play plays a big part in this problem.

I needa get rid of this issue, please advise!!!

Just ask for only $5 chips next time you buy chips. If you win 25s get rid of then as soon as possible by putting them in a pot when you call make a bet of 20 or more.

You will have to get used to knowing how much money you and your opponents have but just ask for the chips that will make you comfortable until you are there.

Hi Caputop!

Thanks for the advise!

But the problem is I am playing underground games and they issue a "standard" amount.

Is there anyway you would advise on getting used to handling those chips? Because I see them as the same size, thus it always eludes me that the denomination are different and when in the heat of the battle, especially during tough decisions making time, I tend to be looser with them.

You could ask the guy with the most chips at the table if he wants to trade some of his 5's for your 25's.

Stop looking at them as chips, think of them as money. Take a deep breath before every decision and think about the money.

Also, if they won't give you the chips you want, just use them right away. Don't put a 25 in to call a $1 bet, but do it for bigger bets so you have the chips you are more comfortable with if you can't figure it out.

I wonder if its really the chips at all, or if you just have an issue with folding TPTK to a pot size bet. The reason I say that is that while its true that chips seem lless like money than actual cash, just clicking a call button on a screen is yet another step removed from chips. So usually people will make even a weaker connection between clicks and cash than chips and cash.

There are lots of players who think they are beat, but end up calling in the heat of the moment. The best way Ive heard it described was "I made up my mind to fold, and it was like a third arm grew out of my body, grabbed my chips and called while I sat there and watched " so I'd suggest you really look at your decision making at the table. Are you acting too quickly? Are you worried about being shown a bluff and feeling embarrassed in person where online no one sees you?

The fact that you said you even di it with a stack of 100bb leads me to think its not really the chips, and you may be using that as a rationalization for other issus. Just my opinion.

Hi Mat!

Thanks for your advise. I am not very comfortable asking people for favours at the tables though. Thanks anyways

Yeah, I suppose I am not taking my time to make decisions. Too concerned about acting fast so I will not hold up everyone's play time and the ****. And also, when people looks at me while the action is on me.

I actually agree with browser2920. it could be something other then the problem with the chips.

I'll explain in my reply to browser2920.

Thanks man Caputop

Hi browser2920!

Thank you for your advise

Yeah, besides the chips issue, I actually feel that there might be other issues which are unaddressed, which I didn't really realised of until you pointed it out.

The story about the 100bb thingy, I actually spewed it away within a couple of hands, just after I lost my first buyin. Which was about 50bbs left.

Being a newbie to Live games, I was rather shocked there's such a huge difference between online and live. So was in the midst of adjusting everything

Hero(CO):99

Hero raised to 8bb, button and sb called.

Pot:25bb

Flop: 868

Check around.

Turn:8

sb bets 25bb, Hero calls, button folds.

River:T

Pot: 75bb

V bets more then enough to put Hero all in, Hero called.

V shows 8 9o.

Yeah. I told myself preflop that I am going to setmine, but I somehow slowplayed the hand cos I thought OTF, "Hey, I could make some money with this hand, maybe!" So I rational that V wouldn't call with worse on such kind of flop, and thus I slowplayed.

V betted OTT, I thought, " I have Top Two!" V could be holding onto AX or worst and is trying to steal the pot.

And on the River, V betted alot. He had a stack of 1kplus infront of him which he bought in for. I have the small stack of chips left, probably about 70bb? I figured, "V can't be playing so aggressively with the hopes of getting the T OTR right?" So I called.

Yeah, I guess it goes beyond the chips issues prolly. But I still feel this is just a part of it, besides the tilt of losing the previous buyin. Cos my bankroll is really small I probably was scared of losing it too, and the thought of that plus a mixture of other reasons caused the problem.

I am not too sure, what's your thoughts?

It's not really asking a favor, though. If I have had a particularly good session and have the biggest stack on the table, I'm usually happy to trade my smaller chips for bigger ones. A stack of fewer chips doesn't look so imposing, and it's easier to deal with and faster to count when it is time to cash out.

Think in terms of nubers, not chips.

If you have 100 and its 25 to go, that one chip is 1/4 of your stack. So you should be thinking I have 100 and its 25 to call rather than thinking ok its just one chip to call. Thinking in terms of stack sizes is important anyway. You need to know how committed you or your opponents are to the pot at all times.

Stop thinking in "BB". Think "$"

Stop thinking your opponents are 12 tabling GTO gurus with the latest HUDs and 100k hand history databases.

You mention "when i am down to like, 50$/bb". This is playing short, which is a high variance (meaning you'll lose allot) game, as you'll reach commitment much earlier and opponents have less fold equity. This indicates to me the "tournament" mentality seen in many noobs: "I put $X on the table, so I'm committed to play til it's gone."

Set 60bb's as your floor. If you fall near or below this, either top up to a playable stack (70bb+ imo) or just pick up and leave. $50 is still $50, and playing with this stack amount at 1/2 (or even 1/1) is just lighting it on fire, but in the real world it's a month of internet. You might buy additional chips up front so you can quickly (and quietly) top off between hands without having to wait or call attention.

And yeah, I hate greens too (unless I've got half a stack or more ) and get rid of them quickly. Just announce when you sit down "Anybody want some greens?" and you'll likely find a quick customer.

Btw, a cheaper way to bone up on your chip mechanics is bar poker.

It can be doing them a favour as well. When I'm running good and got piles of 5's all over the place I'm quite happy to swap them for 25's...

P.s. it's advice.....

You had a boat.

You are being played as a newbie to live poker. Everything you have posted about the issues and the hands is about number of blinds, pot odds, equity, etc. - all the skills of playing online poker.

As you say, live poker is much different. THE most important skill for live poker is reading tells. It is missing from your game, so you are the fish at the table, despite your other skills. You need to get the books and videos on tells and study, study, study. As you learn from the books and videos, study the live players while you are playing to practice spotting the tells. There are facial tells, verbal tells, chip handling tells, posture tells, emotion tells, betting motion tells and more.

Consider all the money you are playing for the first few months as your tuition to learn tells in live play. Sometimes you will want to pay off small bets just to see the cards and verify the tells you spotted. In the long run, this will pay off big time.

Hi Suit and AngusThermopyle!

Thank you for the advise

I wonder how does thinking of the chips as numbers or money help? Are you both talking about different things?

Numbers and $$$ are the same. For example you talked about the hand you lost to quads. You said you raised 8bb. You didn't say what limits you were playing so 8bb could be $16 or $45 which is a big difference.

Everyone is right. Get $5 chips and stack them in front of you in stacks of 20 ($100). Most people do this because it's easy to look at your stack and know how much you have without counting your chips every 5 min. What limits do you play?

Sent from my SM-N910P using 2+2 Forums

Hmm I see. I'll see if I can manage to blurp it out haha. But on a serious note, yes, I think I could change it for smaller denominations.

Hi Nocturnal_Joker!

Thanks for pointing that out! Yay I hit a boat. not. I typed it wrongly, thanks buddy it should be a 6 OTT

Hi PokerXanadu!

Yeah I think you are right. My poker tells reading skills isn't good at all, and I think I could work on it after I settle all the small issues first like handling chips and being able to play aggressively correctly pre and post flop, as well as not to put my chips on the line for silly reasons.

Cos I'm playing in the Micros i don't really see the point in playing with lots of knowledge about the odds and equity besides the simple ones which will help me play the game optimally. haha and yeah I am ready to move on now. I can't play online anymore at my place.

Is there any advise you could give to a newbie in Live poker? I think I am doing all kinds of silly things without consciously knowing it.

Hi opph!


Ah I see. Ps, I actually typed it wrongly without realising. V had 8 trips OTF and a Boat OTT. I had overpairs OTT, 99p.

I just started playing 1/1 underground poker. Thanks for your advise

Yes, I have some very important advice for a newbie to live poker. Here it is:


Nah. THE most important skill for live poker is reading tells. You could work on it right now. Buy the books (abebooks.com has the best prices for used books) and find the videos (online) for poker tells. Start studying them, and looking for the tells when you play.

By the way, did I mention: THE most important skill for live poker is reading tells.

Ah I see ^^ Yeah I was planning to study poker tells though I thought I should settle the small details that are preventing me from making the best decisions.

Yeap, thanks for the links! I'll go check 'em out!

I very much doubt this is the issue.
You should know mathematically when you are pot committed. And you shouldn't be calling bets or making bets that commit you. Either check/fold or go all in. Once you get familiar with that skillset then this problem should go away.

Similarly when you bet or call a bet you should have a plan for the next round of betting or for what to do if you get raised. So if you are not pot committed by your bet and you get raised all-in, then the fold should be automatic unless your plan was to snap off a bluff. It should have nothing to do with what your chips look like.

From tournament play (and reading books) I have learned that when I bet more than 30% of my chips, I will be pot committed, so instead I should be going all-in (or checking if I don't want to go all-in). Similarly if I am calling off more than 30% of my chips then I am making a committment to call an all-in on the next betting round. So if I am not comfortable with that, then I should fold.

I use 30% as my demarcation line but you should look at this and decide for yourself what your line is. Once you have that line, all of your "subconscious" way of handling chips should be moot.

The issue is exactly that you don't know the strength of your hands.

If you are saying that you are a winning player online because online you know the strength of your hands but when you are playing live you suddenly don't know the strength of your hands then you have to really be honest with yourself as to why this happens.

It may very well be that in a live setting you are unable to think clearly. You may have an adrenaline rush problem. You may feel self conscious.

But whatever it is I doubt it has anything to do with undervaluing your chips. Online everything is mathematical to the penny. You see the pot size. You see your stack amount. You see every one of your opponents' stacks amounts. And it is easier to evaluate in the moment.

Are you aware of all of those things live? If the answer is yes and you are capable of thinking, then make good mathematical decisions based on what you believe your opponent's range of hands is. If you are unable to do that then stop playing live.