Hand Dealt vs. Shufflemaster (Card Shuffling Machine) - Poker Card Room

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Hand Dealt vs. Shufflemaster (Card Shuffling Machine)

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04-26-2017 , 10:44 AM

JustinWithAJay

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 20

Hey everyone, just wanted to get people's opinions on what they prefer at a live poker table. Would you prefer the cards be hand shuffled or shuffled by the machine in the table? My local casino hand deals and I am trying to get them to put the shufflemasters in the table as I believe that the hand shiffling is just FAR too slow.

Let me know what ya'll think!

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04-26-2017 , 10:51 AM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Most people who respond here will prefer shuffle machines because they are faster. But they do cost quite a bit of money ($50k?) so the cost-benefit is not straightforward for small rooms.

Also some people believe that the machines can rig the deck. It's not as crazy as it sounds - I believe some models actually can.

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04-26-2017 , 10:53 AM

JustinWithAJay

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Haha yeah they are about $3,000 per machine! But come on, even the smallest cardroom that gets 3 daily tables can afford that

Hand Dealt vs. Shufflemaster (Card Shuffling Machine)

As for the rigging, I've seen the machines spade the deck soooooo, I suppose rigging is possible but still unlikely.

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04-26-2017 , 10:58 AM

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Are you sure $3,000 is a price tag and not a monthly rental fee?

I've never priced them out so all I know is second hand from dealers (who may not have any additional information). But one hint I have is that my local room has about 25 tables and is cost-justified to have a full time repairman. If the machines cost $3k, it would basically never be cost justified to repair them, as buying a new set every year would only be $75k.

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04-26-2017 , 10:59 AM

JustinWithAJay

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by callipygian

Yes I'm pretty sure they are between $3-$5000. The best ones that I've seen went for $7k i believe

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04-26-2017 , 11:08 AM

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

They are not purchased. They are leased. Each room has a contract with shufflemaster and the amount you pay depends on the number of machines you have.

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04-26-2017 , 11:09 AM

JustinWithAJay

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

They are not purchased. They are leased. Each room has a contract with shufflemaster and the amount you pay depends on the number of machines you have.

Wow... Shufflemaster is definitely doing it right then

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04-26-2017 , 12:39 PM

c2d2

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 541

Whatever you do, don't get Deckmate 2's.

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04-26-2017 , 12:50 PM

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

They are not purchased. They are leased. Each room has a contract with shufflemaster and the amount you pay depends on the number of machines you have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinWithAJay

Wow... Shufflemaster is definitely doing it right then

That's the preferred business model for both parties in most cases.

The casino doesn't want to have a bunch of expensive poker tables in their books. That's just an ugly number. Same reason why some hotels and airlines sell their properties/aircrafts and lease them back.

Shufflemaster on the other hand makes more money that way and doesn't risk their machines ending up on a third market, for example through liquidation sales.

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04-26-2017 , 01:18 PM

#10

Noles1724

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 453

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinWithAJay

Haha yeah they are about $3,000 per machine! But come on, even the smallest cardroom that gets 3 daily tables can afford that

As for the rigging, I've seen the machines spade the deck soooooo, I suppose rigging is possible but still unlikely.

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my understanding from the dealers at my local room is that the auto shufflers are rented out and can not be owned. that's the reason why my room does not have them.

I primarily play at the same room but one time I was playing at a room that had the machines and I was looking forward to playing at this room.. and it disappointing that the dealers sucked so bad that the difference was not very noticeable.

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04-26-2017 , 01:28 PM

#11

AngusThermopyle

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,929

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noles1724

the difference was not very noticeable.

How much difference were you expecting? 10% more hands?

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04-26-2017 , 01:30 PM

#12

JustinWithAJay

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 20

I personally prefer the machines because every time a new dealer comes in and they have to recount the cards it tilts the **** out of me lmao

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04-26-2017 , 01:45 PM

#13

Noles1724

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 453

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle

How much difference were you expecting? 10% more hands?

Nothing earth shattering but after the session I didn't feel like it was something noteworthy..

the issue was the dealers did not seem to be on the ball in terms of making sure players were acting when it was their turn. it was my first time at this room so I didn't speak up like I would have at my local stomping ground. I would look at the players (following the action) and when they weren't paying attention I would look at the dealer and it was taking them a second (generically speaking) to realize that the player was not engaged.. because themselves were not paying attention like they should..

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04-26-2017 , 02:24 PM

#14

Suit

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 4,744

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinWithAJay

Wow... Shufflemaster is definitely doing it right then

Absolutely. Patented the hell out of it and own the market. I wish I had bought their stock when they started.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noles1724

the difference was not very noticeable.

It takes so little time for a good dealer to shuffle that it's hardly worth it IMO.

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04-26-2017 , 03:15 PM

#15

AngusThermopyle

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Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 14,929

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

It takes so little time for a good dealer to shuffle that it's hardly worth it IMO.

When they were introduced at Garden City (San Jose), they were definitely worth it.

It would depend on the rake/drop and the current speed of the games.

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04-26-2017 , 03:17 PM

#16

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

It takes so little time for a good dealer to shuffle that it's hardly worth it IMO.

But even a little time adds up. Like if you save 5 seconds per hand, it would be a 5% increase in revenue.

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04-26-2017 , 03:42 PM

#17

callipygian

slowrolled by tpiranha!

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 19,880

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle

It would depend on the rake/drop and the current speed of the games.

True, many of the machines can't keep up with shorthanded play anyway.

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04-26-2017 , 04:52 PM

#18

Noles1724

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 453

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

They are not purchased. They are leased. Each room has a contract with shufflemaster and the amount you pay depends on the number of machines you have.

yup. absolutely genius marketing plan to say the least.

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04-26-2017 , 05:12 PM

#19

psandman

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 15,829

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noles1724

Or because its rude to jump on a player just because they didn;t act instantaneously. You can get away with that because you don;t rely on tips for a living or risk being fired because a player complains that you were rude to them.

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04-26-2017 , 05:32 PM

#20

Kelvis

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suit

Absolutely. Patented the hell out of it and own the market. I wish I had bought their stock when they started.

It takes so little time for a good dealer to shuffle that it's hardly worth it IMO.

What exactly did they get a patent on? I can't really think of a patent other than "shuffle cards with a machine" that cannot be avoided using a different mechanism.

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04-26-2017 , 05:47 PM

#21

psujohn

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,173

I think 5-10% is about right. Probably 2-3 hands an hour additional. The time it takes a dealer to hand shuffle though is insignificant compared to someone who tanks even 5s for each decision and these guys are unfortunately very common.

I think the biggest advantage is when you have green or otherwise not great dealer. It's also nice that the machine checks the deck every hand so you never have to worry about a lost card.

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04-26-2017 , 05:49 PM

#22

madlex

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Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,435

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvis

What exactly did they get a patent on? I can't really think of a patent other than "shuffle cards with a machine" that cannot be avoided using a different mechanism.

Just google 'shuffle master patent' and take a look at it.

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04-26-2017 , 06:21 PM

#23

Kelvis

banned

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Quote:

Originally Posted by madlex

Just google 'shuffle master patent' and take a look at it.

Well since it is a gazillion parts and pages it'll take a while to figure out exactly why it is so hard to duplicate such a machine in function.

Since suit brought it up I was hoping he was familiar with the patent.

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04-26-2017 , 07:19 PM

#24

Bene Gesserit

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,365

It must help some with revenue for the rooms that use them. How much , I certainly have no clue, but I doubt that most casino managers would utilize them if they were not cost effective.

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04-26-2017 , 07:40 PM

#25

cardzone

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 86

Reminds me of the time my buddy spilled an entire huge drink onto the table,, sitting in the 6 seat, about 12 oz s of a rum and coke disappeared into the automatic shuffler.
Harrahs Las Vegas wasn't too happy. He was tossed from the casino immediately.
Wait,,maybe that was me Hahahahaha

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