Hey guys, posted this on Plo forums but it probably belongs here...

Hey guys, got a question about Plo showdown to those dealers here or those who know the rules really well.
Winning hand, player shows the 2 relevant cards and throws the other 2 face down near him.
How do you treat this?
Tell him to show all 4 cards? Treat this as a mucked hand and chop the pot?
Saw this situation a few times and never know hot to approach this.
Thanks.

Room dependent.

Well, what is the most common rule used?

I am not a PLO guy but I suspect it's like "show both" in Hold 'Em. In that case, the most common procedure is to remind the player that it takes four cards to make a claim for the pot.

Some people would prefer that the dealer inform rather than instruct the player as to avoid minor OPTAH violations. Those people are the nittiest of nits.

It's not a mucked hand. It's not a chopped pot.

This is correct (in sanely run rooms). Someone (dealer or player) will say "You have to show all four." Player shows other two. Pot is pushed. No one quibbles. On to the next hand.

Thanks for answering, i understand this is correct just want make sure i dont violate any rules for those angle shooters and whiners out there.
Another scenario that happened to me as well, guy shows 2 winning cards and throws the other 2 in the muck, they hit the muck.
Same ruling?

If you're dealing, you call the floor in that situation.

As floor, you tell the guy he only gets one warning, next time his hand will be dead and he will lose any claim to the pot. (Unless he has already had his warning.)

Note that touching the muck doesn't really matter if you (the dealer) can identify which cards are his still. If not, see above.

If you're in a room where the player needs to show all 4 cards to win the hand and this happens this is an automatic floor call. There's zero reason for a dealer to make a ruling in this instance.

My guess is that in the room where I work they'd rule it a dead hand and award the pot to the other player, assuming they'd already tabled their 4 cards properly.

Its a home game so im the dealer and the floor

In general, home game questions should go in that forum, because the rules can be looser/different. Also, having the same person be the dealer and floor is generally a bad thing which doesn't happen in a casino, so our advice might not work for you. But since you asked...

You should first stop thinking of the muck as magical. Cards aren't magically dead when they touch the muck (or when they are thrown forwards in a folding motion). If they are identifiable still, and you have a need, they can be ruled live.

Cards are mucked by placing them into the muck pile so that they are now unidentifiable. In general, any time you as a dealer muck a hand, you should take care to muck them unidentifiably. But if a player throws a card and it touches the muck pile but remains identifiable, you can still rule them live. (You should be protecting the muck pile with one hand as well, though sometimes you just don't have enough hands.)

As to this situation, the advice above is correct. You can push the player's 2 cards back to him and tell him he needs to show all his cards to make a claim for the pot. If they are somehow unidentifiable, you can give him a single warning - the goal is not to steal pots from people who otherwise have shown they have the best hand and who make innocent, newbie mistakes.

For a first time "offense", even if the two cards are retrievable?

You ask about chopping the pot and I think to myself why would he ever chop the pot? If you treat ot as a fold then the other player wins .... unless the other player has already mucked ... so are you imagining a scenario where the other player has mucked.

I handle this exactly as I would handle it in any game where a player shos only part of a hand.

If he shows part f his hand and all his opponets muck .... well then I push gim the pot because he is the last person with a hand and therefor doesn;t have to show.

IF someone else still has a hand .... then I will ask him ... are you mucking, If he seems confused I will tell hm I can;t read his hhand until it is tabled. If his ipponent is the one required to show first I will tirn to the opponent and tell them showem or muckem,

Are you security, valet, and waitress too?

Tell him to turn over his other two cards.

Give him a warning, telling him you want to run the game like a cardroom.

If he continues, consider the plus/minus of further penalties.

Sometimes waitress, yes
Thanks all for answering, thats pretty much what i was doing until now, just wasnt sure this was the correct ruling.

This is very typical, similar to a player in NL only showing a card that 'matters' before he finds out he's the winner and rolls the other one. Same thing here, player is only showing the 2 he 'thinks' plays and is waiting to find out if he's beat or not ... not wanting to give away the other 2 cards in his hand for information to the rest of the table.

The tolerance of this should be room, stake and dealer dependent. In a home game full of potential novices I actually see this as helpful since it's easier for hand reading.

Typically when I play PLO I will put the 2 I think play together and then turn the other 2 over but set them slightly to the side or behind the others.

The player certainly risks missing out on having a bigger hand OR looking like a douche when he turns over a bigger hand after 'remembering' what the other 2 cards are. GL

What room is this so I can never play there?

Why would you never play there .... he is talking about a scenario where the cards have ht the muck..... If they are identifyable the floor very well may allow the player to recover them and turn them up .... but a dealer would be ill advised to do this on his own....

Lol at newbs that think mucking some of their cards won't kill their hand.

You want to win the pot? Turn all your cards over or GTFO.

Very much this. When I deal PLO, if a player tables 2 cards and leaves the other 2 face down, I tell him, "I need to see all 4 cards," or something to that effect.

In the event that 1 player tables his hand and another player tables 2 cards and threw his other cards into the muck, I'd call the floor and would expect that the hand would be ruled dead.

But this has never happened to me yet and I've dealt an awful lot of PLO hands over the years.

Don't think anyone will ever do that show 2 cards which are absolute nuts and throw other 2 intentionally into muck, give him a warning 1 and 2 from there on it's his problem.

in home games you dont take posts away form people for making mistakes like that.

This is a foolish post and I don't understand why it's so popular in ruling threads.

If you avoid a room because of singular bad rule or ruling, you will have exactly 0 rooms to play in.

You don't understand why a sufficiently egregious ruling or a high frequency thereof would factor into the choice of someone who has access to choices? Okay.

Edit: Oh my god, you're the one who was spewing that bull**** before. Can you find the strength in yourself to stop?

Shut down Yelp, what's the point.

I'm with him, mostly. Any room can have a bad ruling, even an egregious one. Obviously no one wants that, but it's probably not practical to limit yourself to rooms that have never had one. No one is saying "don't post about bad rulings", they're saying "don't making black and white decisions about whether to ever play somewhere based on a single bad experience". Which is just as true for yelp.

Having said that, a pattern of bad rulings, or a room with a bad rule itself, is certainly something that should probably drive behavior more.

Also, it's entirely possible that the "what is the name of this room" crowd is promising to never play there at least a little bit tongue in cheek.