Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Casino Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-20-2017, 08:18 PM   #1
sactownjoey
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 771
Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Recent satellite for circuit event with 15 minute blind levels. Young kid, dark glasses, waits for everyone to act before looking at his cards, very deliberate as he arranges them, looks, sits motionless for 20 seconds...acts. Every. Freaking. Time. And when he acted it took him 15 seconds to cut out chips and bet.

If he was in the hand, that hand would take up at least 1/5 of the blind level.

Obviously, his slow play was deliberate although I don't know the motivation for his deliberateness, whether it was the way he played that he felt maximized his play or whether he knew it could have a negative impact on other players. Regardless of the reason, it was making a challenging structure much worse.

Is it appropriate to say something to the player? The dealer? The floor? If so, what's the best way to go about it?
sactownjoey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2017, 08:30 PM   #2
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 14,589
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Saying something at the table eitjer to the dealer, the player or another player is not likely to help in this situation. He is going to react badly. I would speak to the floor away from the table.
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2017, 09:23 PM   #3
MIB211
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,073
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Was he tanking post flop streets? I don't play a lot of tourneys but I'd just start calling clock.
MIB211 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 02:59 AM   #4
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 14,589
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211 View Post
Was he tanking post flop streets? I don't play a lot of tourneys but I'd just start calling clock.
Calling the clock on this sort of player is not generally effective because the amount of time he is taking on any action isn't really long enough for a clock (he would probably act before a floor person arrived) .... the problem is that sum of the time he takes is too long
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 03:16 AM   #5
youtalkfunny
dumbest smart person his mom knows
 
youtalkfunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: I can't believe it, either!
Posts: 20,263
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

He's doing EXACTLY what they teach at those $1000+ WPT Boot Camps.

--Don't look at your cards until it's your turn to act. That way you won't give tells to the players who act ahead of you.

--Always count to ten before doing anything. This will disguise those few times you actually need a moment to consider a decision.

no kidding. That's about $900 worth of what they teach at those things.
youtalkfunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 04:13 AM   #6
MMMed13
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 69
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

They couldn't have taught them to count to 5 instead?
MMMed13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 07:42 AM   #7
monikrazy
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
monikrazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 23,292
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

All you can really do in this situation is politely ask the player to be a little faster. You can also comment that satelites have fast structures and explain how it can be unfair to other players if other tables are seeing more hands.
monikrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 08:53 AM   #8
NickMPK
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,005
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

What if you agreed with the rest of the table to also all take the same amount of time, so you literally saw 3 hands an hour? Assuming the guy thinks he's a winning player, his "strategy" will only work if he's the only one doing it. But if it causes the entire table to play slowly, not being able to see any hands while the blind go up will be very costly to him.
NickMPK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 09:07 AM   #9
bolt2112
adept
 
bolt2112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 799
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny View Post
He's doing EXACTLY what they teach at those $1000+ WPT Boot Camps.

--Don't look at your cards until it's your turn to act. That way you won't give tells to the players who act ahead of you.

When I was a poker noob I used to do this for this exact reason. Then I realized 2 things:

1. If you wait until it's your turn before you look at your cards then you can pretty much guarantee that the maximum number of players will be looking at you when you do it.

2. If you do this, it makes you a huge d-bag.
bolt2112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 09:21 AM   #10
Bene Gesserit
Pooh-Bah
 
Bene Gesserit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: my old Kentucky Home
Posts: 5,716
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

This is very old fashioned thinking, and was never a wise ploy anyway. 15 minute levels? You see so few hands per level when conditions are optimal. This can decrease the amount of hands significantly. IDK that there is any thing that can be done about it. Ranting and bitching is out of line and maybe useless anyway. Possibly advising him that he is likely limiting his own options a bit in a quick level structure might help, but I doubt it.
Bene Gesserit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 09:49 AM   #11
MIB211
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,073
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
Calling the clock on this sort of player is not generally effective because the amount of time he is taking on any action isn't really long enough for a clock (he would probably act before a floor person arrived) .... the problem is that sum of the time he takes is too long
I'd start calling clock as soon as he gets his cards then. Make your displeasure known.

This is a big reason why I don't play tournaments, in a cash game you can table change or just leave rather than deal with this. I have limited time to play poker and don't want to spend it waiting on this guy.
MIB211 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 11:20 AM   #12
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 14,589
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIB211 View Post
I'd start calling clock as soon as he gets his cards then. Make your displeasure known.

This is a big reason why I don't play tournaments, in a cash game you can table change or just leave rather than deal with this. I have limited time to play poker and don't want to spend it waiting on this guy.
What is the value of making your displeasure known in this way. ?



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 11:27 AM   #13
Suit
veteran
 
Suit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,239
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

You need to say something to the player. Plain and simple that is your only chance at getting him to realize what he is doing. Be polite about it and try to keep him from getting defensive because once that happens you have no chance. I'm guessing most others at the table would jump you your aid once it is brought up.
Suit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 11:28 AM   #14
TR3V
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Seat 2
Posts: 278
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

I am always paranoid if I make it known how much it is getting under my skin, they will use that info to their advantage and do it more/worse. I keep my mouth shut and hope one of us gets moved to another table, or he gets knocked out before too long.
TR3V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 11:42 AM   #15
MIB211
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,073
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
What is the value of making your displeasure known in this way. ?



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Depends on what the reaction is. My hope would be others would agree he's acting too slow and pile on when I call clock. If so, maybe V speeds up when he realizes he's bugging everyone. Maybe the floor tells him to move it along. maybe he tilts if he thinks everyone is against him and becomes more likely to bust out.

Doesn't work as well if others at the table don't chime in too. In that case, maybe I at least annoy V to make up for the fact that he's annoying me.

I just really hate slowplay. A lot of times I only get one session a week and having to spend it watching some guy wait 30 seconds to fold 72o bugs me to no end. I'm more than happy to give people time on big decisions (within reason).
MIB211 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 12:21 PM   #16
SetofJacks
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,815
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolt2112 View Post
When I was a poker noob I used to do this for this exact reason. Then I realized 2 things:

1. If you wait until it's your turn before you look at your cards then you can pretty much guarantee that the maximum number of players will be looking at you when you do it.

2. If you do this, it makes you a huge d-bag.
I do this (cash game limit), but
1. I don't care if they're looking at me because they can already tell how much I like my hand by whether I fold, call, or raise. I highly doubt my facial expression factors into their reads on me.

2. I look at my hand quickly and make my action within 1 second (2 seconds at most)

I'm an antsy sort of fellow and if I look at my cards before it's my turn to act, players to my right will look left and know exactly what I plan to do. Plus it's really funny when they stare at you/your chips to try to get a read when you haven't even checked your cards yet.
SetofJacks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 12:22 PM   #17
SetofJacks
old hand
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,815
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

How about this:
Every time the action gets to him, count to 3 then make an audible "UGGGHHHH" noise.
Every single time.
SetofJacks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 12:26 PM   #18
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 4,358
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

So you call the clock on him so he can take an even longer amount of time? Wait for the Floor .. Wait for instructions .. Wait til about 30 seconds .. act the same he would've in 20 seconds normally. Seems slower IMO.

Talk to a Floor away from table, let him watch and decide. Perhaps talk to the player when he's not in a hand or on a break and let him know he's creating a potential issue, this is a Turbo and he's actually putting all the 'surviving' players at the table at a disadvantage since there are less chips being moved around on this table ... which become short stacks when the table breaks or they move someone into a busted seat. GL
answer20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 12:31 PM   #19
Avaritia
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Dante's Inferno
Posts: 6,592
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament



imo
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 02:03 PM   #20
browni3141
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,069
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Poker is the only strategy game I'm aware of that doesn't use time controls in competitive games. What exactly is wrong with using time controls in tournaments? The problem isn't really with the players doing this, it's a problem with tournament poker's current design.

It could be similar to chess. Player acts, then hits a button to stop his clock and the next player's clock immediately starts running. If your time runs out your hand is dead facing action or checked facing no action. Clocks could be programmed with whatever time control the tournament director decides upon. Something like fixed 10 seconds per action with a replenishing time bank up to 2 minutes would work well. Unused time goes into the time bank.
browni3141 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 02:30 PM   #21
donkatruck
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 853
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Honestly, if he is as described, I'd just make a huge hairy stink about it and call clock the instant the action was on him every time no matter what.
donkatruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 02:32 PM   #22
donkatruck
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 853
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by youtalkfunny View Post
He's doing EXACTLY what they teach at those $1000+ WPT Boot Camps.

--Don't look at your cards until it's your turn to act. That way you won't give tells to the players who act ahead of you.

--Always count to ten before doing anything. This will disguise those few times you actually need a moment to consider a decision.

no kidding. That's about $900 worth of what they teach at those things.
Can somebody pass the location of these camps to ISIS and tell them they are extra infidelly.
donkatruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 02:33 PM   #23
NickMPK
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,005
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Poker is the only strategy game I'm aware of that doesn't use time controls in competitive games. What exactly is wrong with using time controls in tournaments? The problem isn't really with the players doing this, it's a problem with tournament poker's current design.

It could be similar to chess. Player acts, then hits a button to stop his clock and the next player's clock immediately starts running. If your time runs out your hand is dead facing action or checked facing no action. Clocks could be programmed with whatever time control the tournament director decides upon. Something like fixed 10 seconds per action with a replenishing time bank up to 2 minutes would work well. Unused time goes into the time bank.
Why don't you invent this clock and make millions of dollars then?
NickMPK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 02:37 PM   #24
donkatruck
adept
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 853
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
Why don't you invent this clock and make millions of dollars then?
Because the relative rarity of people who are so self-centered and are clueless dickholes like this player means games usually always move along just fine and there is no widespread demand for a poker shot clock.

If the unholy shiatstain poker school/camps teach this garbage, there may become a market for it such a poker time clock and it will have to be invented.
donkatruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2017, 04:51 PM   #25
steamraise
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
steamraise's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: out of position
Posts: 6,301
Re: Etiquette for handling slow player in tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
What if you agreed with the rest of the table to also all take the same amount of time...
I like this.
steamraise is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online