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Old 04-05-2010, 11:52 AM   #26
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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Originally Posted by Kevin J View Post

The more people that let these greedy casinos take advantage of them, the more they will, and the worse it will be for poker in Illinois. I agree these rooms should be boycotted.
Kevin, it's my belief that the problem isn't so much that the casinos in Illinois are greedy (but I wouldn't deny it either) but rather, the Illinois gaming law that's structured in such a way that it's nearly impossible for the casinos to make a profit without instituting abysmal rakes, and payouts in the pits and slots. I don't know if it's still true but one casino in Joliet even charged an admission fee for peopl to come and play.

I don't play in any Illinois casino but occasionally play in NW Indiana poker rooms. Even there the rakes are brutal.
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Old 04-05-2010, 12:13 PM   #27
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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Originally Posted by WindyCityJ View Post
I don't know if it's still true but one casino in Joliet even charged an admission fee for peopl to come and play.
I was at Harrah's in 01/2006 and that was not the case
I've been to Empress weekly from 11/2009-2/2010 and that was not the case
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Old 04-05-2010, 05:00 PM   #28
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

I have my own personal boycott of rooms that charge high rakes. Since you can't win over the long run and I play poker to win I don't at these cash games. Personally I draw the line at $4 with no BBJ drop. I know there are very few casinos in the US that have rakes this low so I rarely play cash at casinos. Just my personal choice. But when someone calls a $6 rake reasonable I have to laugh. I am sure the casinos and the other players love him.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:09 PM   #29
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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Kevin, it's my belief that the problem isn't so much that the casinos in Illinois are greedy (but I wouldn't deny it either) but rather, the Illinois gaming law that's structured in such a way that it's nearly impossible for the casinos to make a profit without instituting abysmal rakes, and payouts in the pits and slots.
I have closely followed Illinois gaming regulations for years. I find WindyCityJís statement to be very accurate. Empress and Hollywood are both owned by Penn National Gaming. Penn National also owns Hollywood Casino in Lawrenceburg Indiana. Anyone who reads the Hollywood Casino (Formerly Argosy) Thread on this forum will find this casino is a good place for poker players. They just finished hosting their first WPT event. I have long been critical of the WPT ignoring the Chicago market. So I was very happy to see the first WPT event run in the Midwest at Hollywood.

Over the past few years we have seen a boom in poker rooms in Illinois. Sadly it wasnít for the poker playerís benefit with current Illinois Gaming Regulations. The Chicago market could easily support 20 plus table poker rooms. What we are seeing is small poker rooms opened to help curb declining casino revenues. So for busy small poker rooms under current state regulations the managementís only option is to raise the rake.

The state of Illinois again has stabbed the casino owners in the back. Now bars will be allowed to have slot machines. As the state eagerly awaits new revenues sources the Illinois casinos braces for another financial hit. So until the state wakes up and realizes they are moving in the wrong direction. If feel that the $6 rake at Empress is reasonable.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:27 PM   #30
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

I think for the very first time I agree with something Chicago Joe said (I hope it never happens again). Yes the State of Ill is greedy and takes to much money from the casinos, but that still doesn't make a $6 rake reasonable. Taking a game which you can have a +EV (if you play well) and making it -EV no matter who is responsible is a bad thing and players who continue to play may as well go play Blackjack or Craps.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:16 PM   #31
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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Originally Posted by Bluesdog View Post
I have my own personal boycott of rooms that charge high rakes. Since you can't win over the long run and I play poker to win I don't at these cash games. Personally I draw the line at $4 with no BBJ drop. I know there are very few casinos in the US that have rakes this low so I rarely play cash at casinos. Just my personal choice. But when someone calls a $6 rake reasonable I have to laugh. I am sure the casinos and the other players love him.
Try the limit games at Potawatomi in Milwaukee. $4 max and BBJ drop. NLHE, however, is a different story...
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:30 PM   #32
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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I think for the very first time I agree with something Chicago Joe said (I hope it never happens again). Yes the State of Ill is greedy and takes to much money from the casinos, but that still doesn't make a $6 rake reasonable. Taking a game which you can have a +EV (if you play well) and making it -EV no matter who is responsible is a bad thing and players who continue to play may as well go play Blackjack or Craps.
Bluesdog I would suggest reading my posts again. Empress max rake on 1-2 is $6. Grand Vic and Hollywoodís max rate is $8. Of the three Chicago area casinos what casino offers the best rake? Than find out who has the best deal on comps. You didnít need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. My reason for my post was to inform 2+2erís on what Chicago area casino currently offers the best rake. Bluesdog you will find the people on this forum are well aware of the effects of rake structures. So itís unnecessary informing us of the negatives of a high rake.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:26 AM   #33
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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All the rakes at IL casinos and charity games are too high. You can't beat a 1/2 game with even a $5 rake (plus $1 per hand tip). Anyone who thinks they can doesn't keep track of their wins/losses. Over say 100 sessions which is really a small sample no matter how good you think you are and how bad you think the other players are you will not come out ahead. These casinos and Grand Vic is the worse keep spreading games with outragous rakes and people like you just go there and play and make silly comments like it is reasonable or it's the best we can hope for. You desrve to lose.
So you think that if the rake is over $5 no limit hold'em is not beatable?
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:37 AM   #34
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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Bluesdog I would suggest reading my posts again. Empress max rake on 1-2 is $6. Grand Vic and Hollywoodís max rate is $8. Of the three Chicago area casinos what casino offers the best rake? Than find out who has the best deal on comps. You didnít need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. My reason for my post was to inform 2+2erís on what Chicago area casino currently offers the best rake. Bluesdog you will find the people on this forum are well aware of the effects of rake structures. So itís unnecessary informing us of the negatives of a high rake.
Check your PM
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:12 AM   #35
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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So you think that if the rake is over $5 no limit hold'em is not beatable?
I do not think a rake of over $5 is beatable at 1/2 NL over a longer period of time. It may be borderline at 2/5 NL.

By the way Chicago Joe you said a $6 rake is reasonable, which is where the disagreement started.
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:39 AM   #36
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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By the way Chicago Joe you said a $6 rake is reasonable, which is where the disagreement started.
My post was about Empressís poker room not a general discussion on rakes. Empressís $6 rake is clearly more reasonable than Hollywood or Grand Vic.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:20 AM   #37
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

A six dollar rake is ABSURD and players should avoid such places, so it doesn't become the "norm". The joints are making a killing as it is, with $5.00. Gone are the days, when dealers had to adjust for spreading as many as, five or six varieties of poker (7 Stud, Stud 8, Omaha 8, Omaha. Holdem, etc.). That slowed things way down. But, no more. One game and it's speedy, lots of hands per hour. No reason for higher rake, other than casino GREED.

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.....Empressís $6 rake is clearly more reasonable than Hollywood or Grand Vic.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:19 PM   #38
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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A six dollar rake is ABSURD and players should avoid such places, so it doesn't become the "norm". The joints are making a killing as it is, with $5.00. Gone are the days, when dealers had to adjust for spreading as many as, five or six varieties of poker (7 Stud, Stud 8, Omaha 8, Omaha. Holdem, etc.). That slowed things way down. But, no more. One game and it's speedy, lots of hands per hour. No reason for higher rake, other than casino GREED.
As long as Illinois lawmakers keep casinos behind the eight ball. Chicago area poker players will suffer. Poker room managerís have few options with restrictions on how many tables a room can have. If revenues pick up for casinos than poker tables will be eliminated for more profitable craps and blackjack tables.

I feel that Penn National is one of the better ones in the industry. If laws change allowing more poker tables. Than the landscape will quickly change in favor of the poker player. Magoo I have always had respect for your views. But I disagree about the $6 rake. For a poker player who takes the time to learn the game. I feel that the $6 rake with no limit holdem is still playable.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:43 PM   #39
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

I know I am coming into this late but I am excited about the $6 rake at Empress because it is 33% less than that of Hollywood and Victoria. That said, it is still $2 too high but persoally I will likely play here when the opportuinty presents itself over Horseshoe ONLY because of the time and money I save not driving from Naperville to Hammond. I easily spend $15 getting to Horseshoe (which is a great room) versus the short drive to Joliet. The horseshoe rake is $5 I believe (including the BBJ) so is it really that different than Empress?

BTW, I am not a fan of BBJ or HHJ because I don't grind daily so my odds of getting a share are not worth the extra dollar anyway.
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Old 05-04-2010, 09:34 PM   #40
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

Since adding two new tables the 1-2 games have been going strong on weekends.
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:23 PM   #41
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

AND ON WEEKDAYS. I could not get a seat the last 3x there. Last Fri. 50 players playing over 16 on the list when I showed up.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:35 AM   #42
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

Played there yesterday afternoon for two hours. One table going until 2:00 when they opened the second (feeder) table. Action was tight/weak with half the table buying in for $100 or less. Players pushing stacks with top pair even though the stack may only have been $50 - $100 still it was very loose.

Since I can't stand Hollywood I will likely play Empress those times I don't want to make the longer drive to Horseshoe.
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:34 PM   #43
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

I know it isn't in the Chicago area, but since the blanket statements were made about terrible rakes at IL casinos, the Paradice in East Peoria, IL, rakes 10%/$4 max for 1-2, and I believe 10%/$5 max at 2-5, which is reasonable IMO.

Also I have heard that they are now trying to get a BBJ approved for which they will likely add a $1 drop in any eligible game($2/5NLHE may not be jackpot eligible if I am hearing correctly).
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:01 PM   #44
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

$4 max would not only be the lowest rake in IL but maybe in the entire midwest.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:13 PM   #45
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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LoL at a "feature" table. And ohhhhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhh my, they are adding 2 more tables to a 3 table room. I see absolutely nothing changing here. They used to offer one of the best 2/5 games I have ever played in, but once they introduced the 1/2NL game, it killed the 2/5 action.

This room is pathetic for what it offers to the players. No comps, high rake, slow dealers, long wait lists, and (apparently) poor floor / rulings. The room is also tucked away into a tiny corner in the back of the casino.

However, The extremely poor quality of play (and closeness to my house) keeps bringing me back. I mean, the regulars here (who all think they are hot ****) are just as bad if not worse than the fish. I have some funny stories about the regs there, but lets just say that they are reallly bad and leave it at that.
The state of Illinois has some of the worst gambling laws in the country. Each casino is allowed only a limited number of "gaming positions" (a "gaming position" is a machine or a seat at a table or poker game) and taxes the casinos heavily, a combination that guarantees crappy games and small poker rooms. There is no way a casino is going to offer more than a token number of poker tables, when those "gaming positions" can be used for more profitable games.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:58 AM   #46
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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I know it isn't in the Chicago area, but since the blanket statements were made about terrible rakes at IL casinos, the Paradice in East Peoria, IL, rakes 10%/$4 max for 1-2, and I believe 10%/$5 max at 2-5, which is reasonable IMO.

Also I have heard that they are now trying to get a BBJ approved for which they will likely add a $1 drop in any eligible game($2/5NLHE may not be jackpot eligible if I am hearing correctly).
Played at Par-a-Dice in May for the first time and other than being a meat locker it was a good and profitable experience. I think the player talent was generally weak but better than my experience at Empress. I will play there again when in the area.

As for the BBJ, I think that is a bad idea for all local casinos. It increases the rake and unless you are one of the daily grinders it is not worth the cost since most rooms are NOT drawing significantly more players than they would otherwise.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:24 PM   #47
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

Regardless of the rake here this game is crushable! I will poast moar later on how and why.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:59 PM   #48
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

Just read through this whole thread and it SUCKS! If you want to talk about rake in post after post after post then start a rake thread. Sigh.

SoÖ.what games are spread. Iím assuming just no limit and limit hold em right? Are they serving cocktails? Whatís the parking situation like? Tournaments?
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:43 PM   #49
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

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Originally Posted by ne14dirt View Post
Just read through this whole thread and it SUCKS! If you want to talk about rake in post after post after post then start a rake thread. Sigh.

SoÖ.what games are spread. Iím assuming just no limit and limit hold em right? Are they serving cocktails? Whatís the parking situation like? Tournaments?
Only 1/2 scarcely 2/5
they serve cocktails
no tourneys
best parking if u are fat and dont like a lon walk.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:39 PM   #50
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Re: Empress Joliet, IL new 1/2 NL and upcoming changes

It seems to me the Empress is more concerned with keeping more tables open to generate more rake. A lot of times they have 4 tables open all 7 handed.
It more convenient for me to play there instead of Horseshoe, but if the games are going to be short handed that often I am going to reconsider.
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