1/2 game where the casino uses "all in" and "call" cards when players are all in or call all ins.

The hand itself is irrelevant. Players 1 and 2 are seated on opposite sides of the table (seats 3 and 8).

On the turn, player 1 bets $50, player 2 raises all in. Dealer places an "all in" card in front of player 2. While player 1 is thinking, dealer wrongly places "call" card in front of player 1. Player 2 sees the call card and turns over his hand, at which point the entire other side of the table corrects dealer and say that player 1 never called. But now player 2's hand is exposed, because the dealer essentially informed him that player 1 had called.

The floor was called over, and he said he had never seen this situation before and honestly did not know what to rule. Luckily, it was a pretty friendly game, and the two players involved agreed to leave the initial $50 bets in the pot, player 2 would take back his all in raise, and they would see the river and award the pot without further betting.

But if the players had not been friendly, what would the correct ruling be? Is player 2 at fault? Or should he be able to trust the dealer when the dealer announces call, making it the dealer's fault?

On Player 2 to call the all-in or fold.



Ultimately, yes.


You should be able to trust the dealer, but you cannot. The House takes zero responsibility for errors.

Angus, since player 2 made the raise, surely you mean it's on player 1 to call or fold. If that's the case, do you then mean to say that player 1 is at fault?

Angus meant to say it is on player 1 to call or fold even though he has seen his opponents cards.

No, he still means player 2 is at fault for showing his cards early.

It sucks, but it is the truth. You have to pay attention and never rely only on the dealer.

I agree. I just wanted to be sure I understood Angus' intent.

You mean player 1. Player 2 is all-in.

Other than that, I agree with you.

I wish the casino would try to make up for the mistake of its employee but apparently that very rarely happens.

I would probably rule as above, on player 1 to act. I'd like to think I could find a rule 1 ruling and do what the players did, call the players all in for 50 and run it out.

The problem is that player 1 maybe says he was definitely going to call and maybe has a much better hand, and now you're preventing him from realizing that value, potentially against his will.

ONE error in 14K+ posts and you all jump on it.

And yes, unfortunately Player 2 is at fault for trusting the dealer and tabling his hand too soon.

I don't get it. By placing the "call" plaque the dealer has informed player two that his bet has been called. Based on the information provided to him by the person running the game, it is now his responsibility to turn over his hand, which he does. How can you say that player two has abrogated his duty to the game by not following the action? After all, the dealer, who is the arbiter of the action, has advised him that his bet was called.

The only fair ruling here is to withdraw the all-in and play out the hand without further betting. Obviously this may penalize player one, if he has winners and was going to call, but it may also penalize player two, if the call was going to be made and HE has the winners. How can the floor come to a ruling that only penalizes player two? When he was doing the right thing?

If you leave the bet out there with the hand exposed on the dealer's instruction, and allow player one the right to act freely, you are penalizing player two for doing the right thing by exposing the hand when the dealer basically told him to. Do we really want to do that? Or do we want to slow the game down to a crawl and have players questioning the dealer's every action? Are you sure the button is right? are you sure it's my blind? did he bet? did he call? every hand, hand after hand?

Player 2 is at fault. He should be looking for an all-in plaque in front of him. What he got was not only a call plaque in front of him but no all-in plaque anywhere. This is no different than if there were no plaques. Player 2 did not follow the action and prematurely exposed his hand. (imo, This all-in and call plaques is just stupid.)



The floor can't rule any other way here especially as you suggest or it majorly opens this up to angle shots. Player 2 thinks, oh no, he is going to call, I better expose my hand so I get my all-in back and don't have to put any more money on my bluff at risk.

You may have missed this part of OP's post. The thing is that players at opposite ends of the table (seat 3, seat 8) may not be able to see clearly what action has taken place. But then the dealer throws out the "call" plaque, and player does the right thing by turning up the hand without undue delay. And while the fear of allowing an angle is legit, what is going to prevent a dishonest dealer and his cohort at the table using this action to cheat player two? ie, get player two to expose his hand before player one has acted?

Here is the fault tree:

Dealer >>>>>>>> 2 > 1

Unfortunately, the dealer has no money invested, so he can't bear any of the risk.

Player 2 did hardly anything wrong. He listened to the dealer, and acted to keep the game moving. Unfortunately, he did not follow the action correctly. I don't fault him much, but there you have it. The dealer helps run the game, but he is not really the "arbiter of the action". Players are responsible for following the action themselves, by rule. They must protect themselves from dealer error as well.

Player 1 did nothing wrong.

Player 2 is lucky player 1 was a gentleman about it.

This is good stuff right here. But hopefully the dealer has some risk here, even if it's not the money in the pot. This is a pretty egregious error that should not go unnoticed by the manager.

Also -
Dealers, dont get mad when this guy asks "did he call" every time from here on out. No more complaining about him asking dumb questions.

I always thought "All In" buttons were stupid. Don't remember even hearing of "Call" buttons before, but this seems even worse. I'm surprised situations like this don't happen more often.

I try to protect myself by making sure the other player moves chips before showing my hand, but even my method would be screwed by the ridiculous "Call" button.

So many problems would be prevented if people were forced to go back to the "old school" method of actually moving your chips when you bet or call.

The problem I have with Player 2 being at fault is that players should be able to trust what the dealer says. The dealer communicated that Player 1 called, so Player 2 is right to turn up his hand and not slow down the game. If players can not trust the dealer, the game would slow down to a crawl and no one would play.

But while its clear to me that the dealer is at fault, I'm not sure anything can be done to make things right for either player.

No, you can not just blindly trust what the dealer says. Well, I mean, you can, but that will not protect you if the dealer makes an error.

Everyone who plays poker should understand this very basic fact: you are the one responsible for making sure you protect your hand and follow the action correctly. The dealer is there to assist in running the game, but that does not absolve you of your responsibility in the case that something goes wrong and a ruling is needed.

The floor may take into consideration that the dealer made an error, and make a ruling that softens the blow or leaves you whole as a result, but that is not always possible, such as potentially in this case.

Taken to extremes, yes this can mean that the game slows to a crawl. But in reality it basically means that, if you have VPIP, you should pay attention. If you have made or called a large bet, you should pay attention. If you go all-in, you should pay attention. Yes, the dealer put the Call plaque (seriously, wtf is this?) in front of your opponent after your all-in, but did you see him put more chips into the pot, or hear him say call? If not, ask (the player, not the dealer, but even asking the dealer may cause the opponent to interject or confirm) and clarify. There is no prize for speediest play. Protect yourself. No one else will.