latest craze to fill seats@@@@ HIGH HAND PROMO's

played in a room with $2 rake for high hand payouts
asked the rules
told min hand required
min $20 pot
DEALER SAYS IF YOU GOT ONE ask someone to call you to get to $20
I said isn't that cheating
5-6 players and dealer said everyone does it so its ok
WTF?

then said what about the one player to a hand rule?
what about collusion between players?

everyone including Dealer says separate payout by house doesn't affect the pot
WTF do you mean it doesn't affect the pot ; your raking from the POT!!!
and your colluding to cheat the player who currently has the high hand out of it.
I get why the house likes it, it fills seats.

but why do players like it and think its ok to cheat at it? That I just don't get.
Am going to email Gaming Commission and see what they say about it.

Before going to gaming maybe talk to management. Give them the chance to address it.

What psandman said, but also try to avoid these situations by making the pot bigger than $20 when you have quads.

I know a guy who didnt get paid his high hand money because he said something much more subtle than blatantly asking someone to call. Every room is different.

I don't get it either.

I'm surprised no one who has lost their HH to players colluding hasn't raised holy hell.

Outright organized permitted collusion. Ridiculous.

just a bunch of idiots who don't know what they're talking about, especially the inexperienced dealer.

My experience has been that most rooms have a rule against openly talking about stuff like that, but that the regs have some universally recognized code words or phrases that allow them to get the point across that they need a call to get to $20 without technically violating the letter of the rule.

You while violating rule but giving them a story to make themselves feel better.

I don't do anything to upset bad playing recs. The promo excites them and some play bad hands/lose $$$ trying to get on the HH board. In this case OP says the table's ok w/ it so likely all of the players in the room are ok w/ it and, for all anyone knows, the current HH is on the board bec of this very thing.

Leave these players alone and go w/ the flow.

As I said, IMO while it may violate the spirit of the rule, it doesn't violate the letter of the law, so to speak. For example, let's say the pot is $16 in a 1/2 no game and a guy flops a high hand. He might bet exactly half of what is needed to get to $20 without saying anything at all. But all the regs can figure out that a guy betting $2 into a $16 pot has a HH and needs a caller. He didn't violate the rule about talking about having a high hand, and he is allowed to bet anything he wants.

Regs will usually chop the blinds. But if a guy says "no, let's play" that's not collusion. It's one of two possible answers to the question "do you want to chop"? But they all know that it means the guy has a potential high hand and wants to see a flop. But he hasn't violated the rule. Any player can choose to chop or not on any given hand.

If they have a pre-existing understanding among themselves it violates the rules not just the spirit but the actual rules.

That's where we disagree

You sir, are wrong.

Then we disagree too. I think it is, as with most rules. house dependent. And I don't think most rooms have a very developed set of rules pertaining to what you can and can't do irt a high hand and what the penalty is. Most of what people think are written rules are more likely hearsay. (Ever hear the one about bad beats being invalidated if you have left your chips in a rack?). For eg, if you make a bet heads up with a high hand, and a player asks "do you want me to call?" as some people often do to try and get a read, is it OK to answer if you don't have a HH but not OK if you do?

The examples I gave in my other post are commonly used things. It's not that before a particular session the players got together and said let's do this. It's more of a common knowledge thing that people who play to chase HHs understand. So if you want to believe that betting two dollars into a 16 pot and having a guy call because he realizes what you are trying to do is a disqualifying form of collusion, that's fine. I disagree. But I won't definitively say you are wrong, as it depends.

this is what I don't get, you and others KNOW its wrong but try to justify it.
to me its no different then reaching over and taking chips from another's stack
would you watch someone do this and then say well he wasn't watching his chip stack so its ok we all take some?
I am emailing the gaming commission today but I don't expect anything to be done, to much money flows into the states coffers for anyone to rock the boat.
they would only address it if they thought the state was being cheated.

And by the way, why do the rooms even need the $20 requirement? What purpose does it really serve? Why should a guy in a $6 pot that flops four threes lose the high hand if he bets and everyone folds? Seems arbitrary, you could still have high hands without it.

Just to be clear, I was responding to someone who commented about the things I gave as examples, NOT the example in the OP about a dealer saying up front to ask for a call. I do agree that that is against most house rules. I was referring to work arounds that most regs use that avoids the rule as it is most commonly written, which typically uses wording like "players cannot discuss anything related to the promotion during the play of the hand".

Here is the wording from the Venetian rules about their bad beat jackpot.
Here's the Stratosphere rule for HHS
.

The amount needed in the pot is usually the same as the amount where the room takes the jackpot rake. Many rooms take a dollar at $10 and a second dollar at $20, so they make $20 the minimum pot size. I have seen rooms where they pay half the promo amount for. $10 pot since $1 is taken at $10.

Yes but everyone would limp and agree to check it down for the jackpot if the minimum pot were not (big blind)x(number of players).

Also this isn't a strategy forum but you really shouldn't be in a 3 bb pot with 33. If you're set mining you need to be sure you're going to win a decent pot, and if you're not then the pot needs to be bigger preflop.

So what why do you think that means coded discussions are permitted?

You have a very incorrect assumption of what the state wants. However, I have only dealt with the gaming commission of one state, so YMMV I guess.

It should be noted that enforcement of "no collusion" regarding to HHJ can change in a room from day to day.

At a local room limit players when heads up in the blind instead of chopping would complete/check it down/bet if necessary/split pot. This went on for over a year.

One day a floor came over and went nuts saying he'd ban the next person he saw cheating this way for life.

Next week a dealer at my table was telling two new guys to check it down when heads up in the blinds due to the high hand.

They're not permitted but their prohibition is difficult to enforce.

I agree that enforcement can be an I, but the other poster was asserting that they are legal.

Enforcement however is made much easier by the tendency of poker players to proudly announce when they think they pulled a fast one.


There is currently a bbj non payment under review by Nevada gaming. I do not know all the details but from what I have read I suspect the casino will have to pay. Because it sounds to me like the hands had already been made and qualified for the bad beat before the idiot decided to show his hand to his opponent. Under these circumstances it's not likely to have made a difference (there are circumstances where it might be different so the full details would clear that up) the guy with losing quads is probably not folding to any bet.