Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Casino Poker Discussions of the activities, rules and etiquette of Live Casino and Cardroom Poker Venues.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-08-2017, 04:16 PM   #26
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 14,649
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohn View Post
Apples and oranges. The guy who lost it can describe the briefcase and the amount of money in the briefcase. Maybe even an approximate location.

Stuff left in a cab came from a trip that started at A at time X and ended at B at time Y. Or at least one of a small number of such trips.
And the guy missing a black chip can't describe it and the approximate location?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2017, 02:12 AM   #27
Alpha Fish
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,660
Re: Chip on the floor

a black chip slipped out of my pocket once while I was getting up to go to dinner

someone noticed chip on the floor by my chair and notified the floor - when I returned they told me about it, I checked pockets, realized it was mine, went to security they called surveillance I signed for it and got it back. the whole thing took like 3 minutes

turning it in is the only option for a decent human being, I can make an exception if it's a redbird and no one is around to claim it I'd just throw it to a dealer, and if someone later comes looking for it I'd throw him one too
Alpha Fish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 12:32 AM   #28
Carnivore
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,201
Re: Chip on the floor

Recently I dropped 3 green chips. I found the first 2 immediately. The other one had rolled away slightly and was under another players chair at the table next door. It took me about 3 minutes of searching to find it.

As I go to pick it up, the player it was under reaches down, grabs it, and insists it was his. In theory it could have been, but it seems very unlikely as I knew I had for sure dropped 3 greens.

The manager just reached into a nearby baccarat tray, grabbed a green chip, and gave it to me. I was told by the other manager later that this treatment was due to my being a reg, and it not being worth securities time/effort to see the source of the $25 chip.
Carnivore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 03:59 AM   #29
Lord_Crispen
journeyman
 
Lord_Crispen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: unknown
Posts: 269
Re: Chip on the floor

psujohn, you're trying really hard to ignore 80% of the replies here.
Lord_Crispen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 09:22 AM   #30
psujohn
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,898
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Crispen View Post
psujohn, you're trying really hard to ignore 80% of the replies here.
Thanks for tell me what I'm doing. You clearly know better than I do.

FTR I actually agree with 90% of what's been written here. I also think a whole lot of it is irrelevant. I completely agree that if there's lost property and you can identify the rightful owner it should be returned.

I started with a more cynical assumption - the casino getting a lost chip would expend little if any effort in identifying the rightful owner and they'd just pocket it.

My understanding has moderated slightly. Now I think that if the chip is dropped in view of a camera and it's of significant value the might actually look at tape to try to determine the owner.

I'm still pretty unconvinced that there's any way to identify the owner if the chip is dropped out of view of the camera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman View Post
And the guy missing a black chip can't describe it and the approximate location?
That's kinda ridiculous on it's face. Can you describe they black chip you dropped? Yeah, it's a chiip and it's black.

Though I have to admit that if I went to security and say - I dropped a black chip somewhere. I was at locations A and B over the last 30 minutes - if someone found a black chip at location B and turned it in security might very well give it to the guy. Though given that location B is out of sight of any cameras I'm not 100% certain they would.

To be clear the lack of camera coverage is relevant in my mind only in that it affects the ability to identify the proper owner. Not in ability to get away with something I shouldn't do.

I'm pretty secure in my own sense of morality. I've walked half way across a room to give a guy leaving the table a redbird he dropped while racking up. I've turned in wallets found outside a grocery store with no one around. I've corrected cage and cashier errors in my favor.

This spot was a little different being a significant value chip and being in one of the rare spots in a casino that's out of view of cameras. I think I've been convinced that there's enough of a chance that the chip would be returned to the proper owner that it'd be worth turning it in.

I eagerly await Lord Crispen's return so that he can tell me what I really think.
psujohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 09:58 AM   #31
Playbig2000
Pooh-Bah
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 5,728
Re: Chip on the floor

I'll never forget a while back in the poker room there was a young dealer about 21 years old, a tall kid who I saw walking from the back of the room towards the podium.

He had his right arm extended all the way out in front of him with the his palm facing up, and his left hand was clenching his right elbow with an expression on his face like he just got his finger chopped off.

So I walked toward him to see if he was ok, only to see there was a white chip sitting in his hand that he must have found on the floor, with his palm spread all the way out (for the camera I'm assuming) as he was walking it up to the podium to turn it in.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 09:58 AM   #32
djevans
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,162
Re: Chip on the floor

I don't think it's a huge deal if you keep it or turn it in. If you kept it, it's fine. If you turned it in, that's fine too.

Problem with turning it in is that if the person it belongs to never gets it back, will they just keep it themselves?

And no you are not being a thief just because you didn't turn the $$$ in imo.

I've personally done both. One time I found a $5 chip and asked the table who it belonged too and I guess gave it back to the right person. Another time i found a $5 chip waking to the bathroom and just pocketed it. I would be pretty impartial up to a $500 chip. I don't think any one is gonna lose any sleep over a $100 chip. $500 chip and up is pretty substantial.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2017, 12:43 PM   #33
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 14,649
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohn View Post
That's kinda ridiculous on it's face. Can you describe they black chip you dropped? Yeah, it's a chiip and it's black.

Though I have to admit that if I went to security and say - I dropped a black chip somewhere. I was at locations A and B over the last 30 minutes - if someone found a black chip at location B and turned it in security might very well give it to the guy. Though given that location B is out of sight of any cameras I'm not 100% certain they would.

To be clear the lack of camera coverage is relevant in my mind only in that it affects the ability to identify the proper owner. Not in ability to get away with something I shouldn't do.
So first you call it ridiculous, then you acknowledge it's plausibility in the next sentence.

You describe the chip by stating it's denomination and physical location you think you lost it around and a time frame.

If a found chip matches that description why would they not believe it's yours. On large denomination chips (in 1k or higher) they can ask you where you got the chip and confirm your play as well.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 05:27 PM   #34
PotLuckNeeded
journeyman
 
PotLuckNeeded's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 254
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadstriker View Post
$100 bill by an oblivious old's foot depositing his social security check in a slot as I walked by.

Pointed it out to him. Didn't acknowledge me or say thanks. Just scooped up the bill without a word and went back to flailing away at his 2 cent machine.

Next time I probably say nothing and just keep walking.
Did you return it because you felt it's the right thing to do or did you return it for the possibility of praise? If the answer is #1, it doesn't matter what is response is really.

I might have told this in my PG&C thread. Long story short, I was in LA playing and didn't have time to deposit my money in the bank before flying to Philippines. It was like $3500.00, not a mind blowing amount but certainly a good portion of vacation money. When I arrive to Manila I jump in a cab, pass out my wallet slips out while sleeping. FK!

If you've been to Manila, you know you don't always receive a taxi slip. So basically I thought that money was gone. Now $3500.00 in Philippines is quite a bit of money, my driver drove 2 hours back to my location to return my wallet with every penny intact. Yes, he got a tip of a few hundred.

My point is, for every time I returned money to ungrateful people, I'm reminded that there are honest people that will go out out of their way to do the same for me. If I find money, I bust my ass to try to return it.
PotLuckNeeded is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 11:45 AM   #35
Iuomo
centurion
 
Iuomo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: down by the river
Posts: 163
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
True story from about a week ago:

My friend racks up to leave and as he stands up he see a green chip on the floor near him. Hes not sure if he dropped it or not. He tells the floor who has security check the cameras. Security says they cant tell how the chip got on the floor or who dropped it. Casino keeps the chip. My friend may or may not be out $25 for being honest.
This used to be the procedure in Pittsburgh, also. Casino kept what is not claimed. It has since changed. If this were the rule, I'd likely act on a case by case basis. If it's 2pm on a Tuesday, I may turn it in or wait to see if anyone comes for it. 3am on a Saturday morning when it's likely a drunk probably dropped it and won't recall, I'd be tempted to keep it since 99% of the time the casino is pocketing it.
Iuomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 01:50 AM   #36
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 12,288
Re: Chip on the floor

the general rule always has been in lost and found things, if the owner doesnt come forward you get to keep it. but if that doesnt apply as where the casino then gets to keep it then turning it in becomes a different choice.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 01:54 AM   #37
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 12,288
Re: Chip on the floor

isnt finding money in a casino floor different than money on the floor of a supermarket. one is food money and one is mad money. both really have different values.

what if someone was burning money and one big bill blew over by you. do you return it to him so he can burn it as well.

what if you saw a drug dealer drop money do you give it back to him.

how about if it was someone who owed you money and stiffed you. or someone you hated.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 08:56 AM   #38
Carnivore
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,201
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee View Post
isnt finding money in a casino floor different than money on the floor of a supermarket. one is food money and one is mad money. both really have different values.

what if someone was burning money and one big bill blew over by you. do you return it to him so he can burn it as well.

what if you saw a drug dealer drop money do you give it back to him.

how about if it was someone who owed you money and stiffed you. or someone you hated.
yes
no
yes
no/yes
Carnivore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 08:58 AM   #39
iraisetoomuch
Using one time every time
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 10,109
Re: Chip on the floor

I found something that isn't mine.
I will make no effort to find out who it belongs to.
I will not give it up so someone who can find out who it belongs to.

Can I keep that which is not mine?

Good story.


Everyone has a price. Yours apparently is $100.
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 10:44 PM   #40
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 12,288
Re: Chip on the floor

the real and whole pioint of much of this is what is dropedd andfound depends on what it is, and how much if it is money.

then the standards of the person who finds it.

and then your decision as to what to do depending on who gets to keep it if the real owner is not found. and even if the people you give it to will try to find the real owner knowing they get to keep it.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 10:47 PM   #41
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 12,288
Re: Chip on the floor

even carnivore who is a very good thinker came up and surprised me with his answer of giving the money back to a drug dealer if he dropped it. what if i changed that to thief instead. i would think drug dealer, thief,con man, burglar, all would fall into a category you might not want to return his money.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 01:17 AM   #42
Alpha Fish
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,660
Re: Chip on the floor

lol at random criteria for deciding to keep someone else's money

what if he's a thief? what if he only stole fruit? what if he's a hedge fund manager and bankrupted his clients?

just say to yourself "I deserve this $$$ cause I'm a better man" and be done with it
Alpha Fish is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 01:24 AM   #43
Ray Zee
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: montana usa
Posts: 12,288
Re: Chip on the floor

what if you are not a better man.

the old finders keepers is lost. in life you lose some things and find some things it evens out. it doesnt make you a thief to pick something up you cant tell who lost it and keep it.
unless you want to go by someones rule of law that benefits them by you turning it it in.

of course once the value become too high then that all changes.
Ray Zee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 11:05 AM   #44
answer20
Pooh-Bah
 
answer20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Corner of Walk/Don't Walk
Posts: 4,455
Re: Chip on the floor

Thread got wide in a hurry ...

1) What are your own personal 'rules' for these types of events?
2) Do your 'rules' violate any 'laws' that govern the location of the 'event'? (more/less strict)

3) Do you wish to apply your 'rules' at the risk of being punished under 'the law'.
4) Do you care how your actions are possible viewed by others if they were to be made 'public'?

5) All 'events' in society have an 'image' ... That's why there are misdemeanors and felonies in the court system for 'events' that could be considered similar but on different scales. (Petty theft v Armed Robbery)

It kinda stinks in a casino since if you do your due diligence and ask about a certain spot you can draw attention to yourself. "How do you handle dropped chips here?" "Oh, why do you ask?"

Everything has it's own conditions .. some folks can decipher those conditions better than others. GL
answer20 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 02:16 PM   #45
sovietplayer
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 95
Re: Chip on the floor

Bet it on red
sovietplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 01:58 PM   #46
MoaYourLawn
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 164
Re: Chip on the floor

Two years ago found a $500 purple chip on the ground next to the poker room (leading to the restrooms). Turned it in immediately to the poker floor. Not my money.
MoaYourLawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 03:36 PM   #47
Playbig2000
Pooh-Bah
 
Playbig2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Suffern, NY
Posts: 5,728
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoaYourLawn View Post
Two years ago found a $500 purple chip on the ground next to the poker room (leading to the restrooms). Turned it in immediately to the poker floor. Not my money.
Great job! (but next time give it to security)

True story - about a month ago there was a greenbird on the floor next to a poker table I was at and it was pointed out to a a dual rate floor supervisor by a player. The floor picked it up, looked around the table and said "Who's chip", and when no one claimed it, he was about to throw it to the dealer who if she dropped it, could have been in a little trouble.
Playbig2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2017, 01:58 PM   #48
psandman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
psandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 14,649
Re: Chip on the floor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000 View Post
Great job! (but next time give it to security)

True story - about a month ago there was a greenbird on the floor next to a poker table I was at and it was pointed out to a a dual rate floor supervisor by a player. The floor picked it up, looked around the table and said "Who's chip", and when no one claimed it, he was about to throw it to the dealer who if she dropped it, could have been in a little trouble.
In my room the chip would be dropped. Small amounts like this get dropped but they keep a list of found chips. So the chip gets dropped, then the the floors have it noted on the list that at X time on y date at the gven location a green chip was found near table z and dropped. If someone comes around looking for a green chip lost around that tme and location they replace it from the cage. Before that system they had to send an employee across the casino for every single $1 that was found. It got to be that nobody wanted to pickup any chips from the ground because t was too much hassle.

The rule in my casino is that if an employee finds something and turns it into security if it is not claimed in a certain period of time you have a small window of time to claim it yourself. However this rule does not apply to chips or currency found in the pit area. Once I found a $20 bill and ultimately was able to claim it. A few years ago we were told that the entire poker room is considered a pit area so we can not claim found chips or currency from the poker room.

I can not locate the written policy to confirm it but I believe I had read that unclaimed items of value were donated to local charity.

The one time I claimed something I had to go to the room where they keep everything. It was ridiculous the amount of crap they had,I'm guessing most of it was stuff left behind in the hotel rooms.
psandman is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online