Thanks. I learned something today. I did not know that in traffic court, the cops can change the dates or times of the case multiple times and it's only considered a "clerical error". I didn't know that, but I accept that if that's what the esteemed prosecutor says. I just wonder at what point does it not become a "clerical error" when accusing party is mistaken.

When it's about something that MATTERS.

There is no dispute that this guy was there, and engaged in a transaction. Who cares if it was the 7th or the 8th?

I understand this is a poker forum, and nits gonna nit...but this whole thing is on VIDEO. If someone's description of the video contains an incidental error ("You said I was wearing a blue baseball cap, mine is red!" doesn't matter if the video shows a red cap), it's pantently ridiculous to suggest that this error carries as much weight as a freaking VIDEO.


Mr Gambini...are you MOCKING ME with that comment?

haha I originally wrote "a famous prosecutor was cited" before realizing that the prosecutor wasn't named, so I edited it with the quotes and a smiley.

They can't, but you're still wrong in the big picture.

The cops can't change their story like that because it's a court of law and they give you something in writing. If they write the date wrong HELL YEAH the ticket is invalidated. But that's why they write it down on the spot and you get a copy and they get a copy and when they testify in court they swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The casino is not a court of law.

OP was not served papers or interrogated by a lawyer. He got a voicemail from the cage supervisor and then he went in and talked to his buddy floorman. The cage supervisor isn't a lawyer or even a customer-facing representative of the casino, she's a bean counter who noted a discrepancy in the books. The floorperson isn't a lawyer nor did he see the video at first (if at all). He just believes that the cage supervisor is good at counting beans and went up to get this settled as quickly as possible. Discrepancies in their accounts is nowhere close to being similar to conflicting witness testimony in a court of law.

What exactly am I wrong about? I never made a claim.

It's not just a clerical error or two. It is multiple errors and sketchy procedures that destroy confidence in the casino's competence and/or honesty. In a courtroom everybody has access to the evidence, where here only the casino does. I don't trust incompetent people to evaluate a video which only they are privy to see.

Honestly I think all of the casino workers here are projecting their own values onto the casino employees in OP's case. Maybe you and your peers are professionally competent and ethical, but there are plenty out there that are corrupt, lazy or incompetent enough to incorrectly accuse someone of receiving overpayment.

I don't have any idea whether or not OP was truly overpaid, but if I were in OP's shoes I would certainly not be giving back the $200, and they wouldn't have to ban me. I wouldn't trust the place's ability to ascertain that I was overpaid, nor would I trust them to handle my money in the future.

That's fair. Do their multiple errors cause you to question their ability to ascertain the facts? That is the question.

My little quest in this discussion is to correct the folks who think, "Once they make a single minor mistake, you can throw out all the other evidence."

Yes.

I agree the evidence can't be thrown out. I would accept the judgement of an unbiased third party arbiter such as a Gaming official.

Pretty much anyone who pays the casino the $200 after this debacle is a sucker. After the floor guy comes back with the wrong date (2nd time) you talk to someone above him.

You say I play here all the time, your floor has dicked me around and I have had direct evidence to contradict not one but two claims of your managers. Either I didnt do it, or i did because your incompetent staff didnt count my money, and then your incompetent staff has wasted my time because they cant read simple dates right, if your floor had shown even the smallest shred of competence in this matter to give me reason to think I was overpaid, i wouldve paid, but unless youre intentionally trying to drive a good customer away and get the gaming commission called on you, its time to drop this and move on.

Id also probaly offer to pay $200 if he is willing to comp me $200 in food for my time being wasted.

You dont reward terrible customer service by bending over, you take them to task and demand compensation for their poor service, in this case the compensation being the $200 that may well be yours anyway.

side note: if the casino has had excellent customer service up to that point id just pay, but my opinion of them would certainly be tarnished, and id probably let the floor managar know that.

If the charge is speeding on the 15th, then the fact the cop says 13th and then corrects himself to say he meant the 15th isn't fatal. It could weigh in on credibility of the witness but people do mispeak and it doesn't make everything they say unreliable.

If the charge is that he was speeding on the 13th and the cop now wants to say it was the 15th the charge is going to be dismissed (and it may be that a new charge with the correct date gets filed but that is a seperate issue).

In the current context the matter which involve sthe most scrutiny is the overpayment. So someone mixing up dates and times about this doesn;t surprise me because if I was looking into the overpayment my focus wouldn;t be on date and time but on the activity.

I interpret this as the video was reviewed and the suervisors are simply miscommunicating about the date and time. If what is actually happening is that they are reviewing different dates and times and there is not certainity about when it occurred then I would be skeptical of the decision.

At the Flamingo this weekend, I came to the window with ~$680 in chips and they tried to pay me only the $180 that was in the second rack. I immediately go "wait, what?" and gesture towards full rack of reds. We laugh it off and I receive the correct amount.

My mind was already elsewhere, so if the discrepancy wasn't so large -- say, only $100 -- I honestly think there's a good chance I wouldn't have noticed.

A nice reminder to always verify what you're giving to and getting from the cage. I realized after this that I've definitely become accustomed to letting my mind wander to what I want to eat next and just assuming the cashier won't make a mistake.

This is so important yet it blows my mind how many people have no idea how much they have when they go to cash out. They think just because this is that person's job and there are cameras that it is automatically going to be correct. Well that is not true. The cashier may be about to go on vacation tomorrow and their mind is already on the plane or whatever. Miscounts at the cashier window happen a lot. Don't let it cost you money. It's your fault if it does.

This is true not just at the casino cage but anytime you are involved in a transaction .... you should know what the transaction is and verify it happens correctly.

Yeah, I always know within a redbird or two what I'm expecting and you can bet I watch the hundos getting counted out like a hawk. Once had a cashier rapidly count the hundos directly on top of each other; I recounted at the desk before putting the cash away.

It's taken about 30 years, but now, when an ATM gives me money, I just stuff it into my wallet without counting it.

It's never been wrong. Not once.

I got a counterfeit bill from a bank teller once. Must have been someone deposited, she put $50 on top, then when I cashed check, she hands me top $50 and never checked it for the watermark.

That's because it is a machine. You use a calculator to check your own calculations, not the other way around. That's how reliable machine calculations are.

But we have all had machines fail to work properly.

Come to think of it the only issues I havwe had with atms malfunctioning are machines not giving me my card back, and once it miscounted a deposit (the bank corrected it when I called).

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You haven't lived long enough. I withdrew $400 from an atm a few months ago and it wasn't Vegas, so it was all in twenties. One of them was a single. Luckily the bank didn't give me any grief over it.

about 15 years ago one of my buddies got an extra $20 from an ATM inside a branch of a major bank at like 3am

subsequent withdrawals produced an extra $20 4 out of 5 times

he woke up his roommate and they both maxed out the withdrawal limit in $40-60 increments, each ended up with about three fiddy extra

the machine was taken out of service that same day. bank never contacted either of them

I was once shorted a 20 at a drive-thru atm in a grocery parking lot. Started banging on it, like that would help, but i kid you not, a security guard opened up a door I didn't even know was there and came out of the little booth, asked me wtf was I doing. I showed him the money and receipt and we both said "Huh." Bank reimbursed me. But man was I shocked when he came out of nowhere.

Tough spot for the bank perhaps? They knew what happened and 'who did it' .. Possibly didn't want attention brought to the ATM or Bank or was it lack of firm evidence via the crappy cameras (or lack of one) 15 years ago? Maybe the ATM company had to cover the loss? GL

Heard a guy last night telling a familiar story: "They told me the cage overpaid me $100, said I had to pay it back or face banning..."

What was different about this one:

--he freely admits he wasn't paying attention when the money was counted;

--he 100% believes that no one is lying to him, and that if they say that's what happened, then that's what happened;

-- he STILL thinks he's out $100, tho.