This hand popped up last night and the regs and myself were split on what the correct ruling should be. It goes heads up to the flop and v1 bets 20. V2 min raises to 40. V1 tanks before throwing a 100 dollar chip on top of his 20 without announcing raise.

Half were saying it was one chip so it was a call and the other half were saying it was two chips so it's a raise.

I've played for a long time but never encountered this scenario before. Is there a standard ruling or will this vary by casino? I'm on the east coast if that matters.

Standard ruling is that it is a call. (unless you are on the east coast of Florida or the UK)

He owed $20.
He put in a single $100 chip.
He could claim that he just wanted change for his call.
He could claim that he wanted to raise $80.
He could claim that he wanted to raise $40 more, so he needed $40 change.
He can't have his choice.
He doesn't say "raise", he just called.

Angus has it right, call all day (almost everywhere)

Call.

The previous $20 is part of the pot, and a single oversized chip was added to it.

As said above: Its a call because technically the $20 he had in front of him is already in the pot once v2 raises, often times when heads up at this point I would bring in the money and leave only the raise out (if time permits), if this were done, OP situation is a no-brainer

STANDARD ruling is call, but YMMV.

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Single silent chips is ...

1) Full bet if facing no action ...

2) Call if facing action ...

Previous chips are considered 'in the middle' whether they are or not!!

Player A bet $15 with a green chip ...
Player B raise to $30
Player A silently tosses in another green chip ... change 20 coming ... next card. GL

call

It's a call 100% of the time.


You shouldn't do this.

to be fair typically its at up players request or if the area is getting sloppy/ chips mixing together

just said it to make a point about the ruling

Call imo.

Not once in my few thousand hours of live poker have I heard a player request this. Must be a Detroit thing.

Ive seen it a bunch in Vegas too, one player raises big another player will ask to have the chips brought in, also more so in tournaments, im shocked you havent seen it, you must not play in many different places... but again using the story as just a tool to explain why one chip rule is in effect; because the money in this story that was bet first belongs in the pot

CT, LV, NH, NOLA, IA.

I'm not talking about when the dealer is asked "How much more is it?" and pulls in the bets on his own accord thinking it's the same thing. I personally know zero players, recreational or otherwise, who see a benefit in having the amount of the total bet intentionally obscured, and I'm confident that I'm not alone here.

Well I agree its not a move that has benefit, I didnt invent it, they say its because they want to see what a call would look like, to be honest I think its just a time ploy more than anything else

I started a thread like this because I tried to raise very similarly to this and it was ruled a call. Most of the thread said it was a call, even though a few reputable posters dissented. We can try to micro-analyze technicalities, but for practical purposes it's a call. I don't like it but I'm not going to lose value at the table sticking to my guns.

Can you explain why? (not sarcastic) If the existing chips are technically part of the pot according to RROP, this clears up any ambiguity, and prevents situations like this from arising.

I think dealers work hard enough that they don't need to 'unnecessarily' pull in chips to the middle.

As a player, most of the time I don't like it when chips are pulled in since it can 'help' a player 'see' that they have good odds to call just based on 'the pile'.

On the flip side, I think there are some times when a dealer 'could' pull in bets during a betting round but I think it's best to wait until requested to by an involved player. The fine line between keeping the game moving and game play. Helping the game flow/speed can artificially help a player construct the information from the hand when facing a decision.

I typically see this when an original raiser is putting out a 3-bet. The dealer will pull in 'all' of the chips related to the opening bet/raise. GL

As noted above:

1- Players don't like it - it clarifies pot odds for opponents.

2- You want to minimize the number of times dealers handle chips. Both because it protects both sides against claims of cheating, and because it decreases the chance of making an (often difficult to correct) error while handling or making change.

Do we need to rewrite the rule to clarify this?

This one seems pretty obvious. v1 needs to put in chips to call. v1 puts in 1 chip. How can it be anything but a call?

Will adding, "when you need to put in chips" clarify any confusion?

To prevent a dealer error or the illusion of a dealer error that will be much more difficult for a floor to correct with all the chips mixed into the pot. All it takes is one player to get confused and claim that the dealer didn't take the bet from one other player or say he took the bet from me twice or something similar. This sort of thing does confuse players since it isn't normal.

Just the other day I had a floor call where a player didn't believe the dealer that a small stack of chips that was bet belonged to a certain player. We cleared that up and then I watched the dealer figure out the pot where there were 4 players in the pot and 3 were all in for different amounts. When the dealer brought the first bets in for the main this player freaked out saying he took from me twice blah blah blah and it took a lot of convincing to get him to understand what happened (I'm glad I was watching). The short stack won the main and the next all in won the 1st side and he had won the last smallest side pot and he thought he should have won more. I know it's not the same, but when you start pulling in bets it does confuse people.

It's similar to sizing into bets. If a player bets 2 large stacks of red chips and his opponent calls and loses and then pushes his chips forward for the dealer to figure out the amount. Now the dealer doesn't break down the winner's bet but grabs chips from the loser and starts sizing into the winner's stacks and then on the second one he tips over the stacks and now there's a pile of chips and we don't know how much it was. Just don't do it so that we never have that 1 in 1,000 times ever happen cuz that one time really sucks.

It happens in Sarasota a lot. Almost never happens in Minnesota.

One oversized chip added to an previous bet is always a call, in Sarasota or in Minnesota.

Your intent was to raise but we have no way of knowing that.
You might have been calling and expecting change.

You have to announce the raise before tossing any chips in or it's a call.

No offense but your last sentence is false.

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I wasn't talking about every time you put chips in the pot.
I was talking about when it's ambiguous, like in the OP.

If it could be a call or a raise, it's a call, unless a raise is announced before the chip hits the felt.