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Bunch of rules questions Bunch of rules questions

04-26-2017 , 04:28 PM
1. It's a tournament, blinds are 200/400 (antes don't matter). A non-blind player raises to 1,600. The big blind (with 400 in front of him) throws in 2 1k chips. Is this a raise or a call? (I know the answer, but this leads into the next few questions)

2. Blinds 200/400; Non-blind raises to 1,600. Big blind (with 400 in front of him) throws in a 1k chip and 2-500 chips (so he has 2,400 in front of him). Is this a raise or a call?

3. Blinds are 200/400, but the non-blind player raises to 1,400. Big blind throws in 2 1k chips. Raise or call?

4. Player is facing a bet of 2,000. They don't have food or drink in their mouth and there's nothing stopping them from talking. They make eye contact with the dealer, and shake a 5k chip in front of their face before placing the chip past the betting line. Raise or call?

5. Player facing a bet of 2,000. They pick up a 5k chip, give the dealer a thumb's up and make a jerk-off motion with the same hand before placing the 5k chip past the betting line. Raise or call?

6. For relevant player seats, you have the button, a small blind, an empty seat, and the big blind. As the hand goes on, a new player (or player from a broken table) sits down at the empty seat between the small and big blind. The big blind gets knocked out. Button moves to the guy who was just the small blind. Does the new guy post a small blind, a big blind, or both, or does he wait 2 hands for the button to pass?
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisRuptive1
1. It's a tournament, blinds are 200/400 (antes don't matter). A non-blind player raises to 1,600. The big blind (with 400 in front of him) throws in 2 1k chips. Is this a raise or a call? (I know the answer, but this leads into the next few questions)
This is a call.


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2. Blinds 200/400; Non-blind raises to 1,600. Big blind (with 400 in front of him) throws in a 1k chip and 2-500 chips (so he has 2,400 in front of him). Is this a raise or a call?
This is a raise and the player must complete the raise to the proper 2800 (unless he is all-in)

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3. Blinds are 200/400, but the non-blind player raises to 1,400. Big blind throws in 2 1k chips. Raise or call?
This is a raise

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4. Player is facing a bet of 2,000. They don't have food or drink in their mouth and there's nothing stopping them from talking. They make eye contact with the dealer, and shake a 5k chip in front of their face before placing the chip past the betting line. Raise or call?
In my opinion it depends. I have seen a player do this in a way that clearly indicates he wants to raise and in my opinion that would be a raise. But this is not always clear ... shaking a chip doesn;t tell me much ... but jerking the hand upward screams raise. My experience is most floors will call it a call because they like to pretend that nonverbal communication is inherently unclear.

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5. Player facing a bet of 2,000. They pick up a 5k chip, give the dealer a thumb's up and make a jerk-off motion with the same hand before placing the 5k chip past the betting line. Raise or call?
Same answer as #4

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6. For relevant player seats, you have the button, a small blind, an empty seat, and the big blind. As the hand goes on, a new player (or player from a broken table) sits down at the empty seat between the small and big blind. The big blind gets knocked out. Button moves to the guy who was just the small blind. Does the new guy post a small blind, a big blind, or both, or does he wait 2 hands for the button to pass?
The TDA rules say a player moving from a broken set can assume the position of small blind .. so this player I say should post the small blind. The TDA rules unfortunately do not address the issue of a player taking a seat as a late registrant or alternate so house rules would apply. My inclination for a new player is that they post the BB, and there is a dead button on the next hand.

A player being moved to balance tables would post BB.
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 04:52 PM
My impression is that the one-chip rule is somewhat ambiguous as it applies to chips that are previously left out in the blinds.

As I have seen it applied, the rule only applies newly put out chips. So if you can remove one of the -new- chips and it would still be enough for a call, the ruling would be a raise. But if it would only be a call be removing one of the blind chips, it is just a call.

The frequent time I have seen this applied is when someone is in the SB in a 1/2 NL game and throws out a red ($5) chip on top of their blind in a situation where they could limp. This is always ruled a limp, because you could not remove the new chip and still have enough for a call, even though you could remove the blind and have enough for a call.

So applying this to your examples:

1.) This is a call, because you could NOT remove either 1k chip and have enough for a call.
2.) This is a raise to 2800, as you COULD remove one of the 500 chips and still have enough for a call. The total is more than half a legal raise, so the BB is obligated to make a minimum raise.
3.) This is a raise to 2400, as you COULD remove one of the 1k chips and have enough to call.

4.) Call
5.) Unless the dealer said "Raise" in response to the player's hand motion and wasn't corrected, I would say this is a call. But I wouldn't mind if the dealer just asked for a clarification.

6.) This is going to be room-dependent. Most places I play, the new player could either wait 2 hands or buy the button. If he buys the button, I suppose he would actually get the button twice in a row the following two hands (the first of which would have no SB).
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK

6.) This is going to be room-dependent. Most places I play, the new player could either wait 2 hands or buy the button. If he buys the button, I suppose he would actually get the button twice in a row the following two hands (the first of which would have no SB).
I assumed we were still discussing a tournament.

In a cash game the options will vary.

But I have never heard of buying the button in a tournament. A player buying the button doesn;t get the button twice unless a player later leaves causing a dead button.
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
I assumed we were still discussing a tournament.

In a cash game the options will vary.

But I have never heard of buying the button in a tournament. A player buying the button doesn;t get the button twice unless a player later leaves causing a dead button.
Oh yeah, in a tournament you can't buy the button.

But assuming this is a cash game, this is the set up:
Hand 1: Seat 1 in BTN, Seat 2 is SB, Seat 3 is Empty, Seat 4 is BB, Seat 5 is UTG
Seat 4 then busts on Hand 1, new player sits down in Seat 3

Hand 2: Seat 2 is BTN, Seat 3 (new player) buys the button, posts both blinds, Seat 4 is empty. Seat 5 is UTG again

Hand 3: Seat 3 is button, Seat 4 is still empty, Seat 5 is BB, no SB, Seat 6 is UTG

Hand 4: Seat 3 is button again, Seat 4 still empty, Seat 5 is SB, Seat 6 is BB

Hand 5: Seat 5 is BTN, etc

What am I missing?
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 07:34 PM
For 6, they are between the button and BB, therefore they will be the SB. It took me a bit to get my head around this type of situation but every time I've had to get a floor ruling it's been consistent that the SB can shift like that.

The only time a new player would be the BB next to the button is if there would have been a dead small and they are moved to balance tables. If they just registered or are from a broken table, they can assume the SB.
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 07:36 PM
What you are missing is either he doesn't buy the button. He posts a single bb (like what would have happened if he didn't sit) and then there is a dead button. Inorefer this because it doesnt change the scenario that would have occurred had he not sat down.

Or as my rooms rules say he can buy the button but seat 5 also posts a big blind then the next hand sat 5 is sb..

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04-26-2017 , 07:47 PM
Sorry, my answer above was for tournaments only. In cash games it can vary by room. In many rooms I would say they can buy the button. The next hand they would be the button, followed by a dead small then big.
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reducto
Sorry, my answer above was for tournaments only. In cash games it can vary by room. In many rooms I would say they can buy the button. The next hand they would be the button, followed by a dead small then big.
why would they have to buy the button as oppose dto just posting the big followed by a dead button?
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
why would they have to buy the button as oppose dto just posting the big followed by a dead button?
That would work too, though I've definitely been in rooms that did it differently.
Bunch of rules questions Quote
04-26-2017 , 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
why would they have to buy the button as oppose dto just posting the big followed by a dead button?
I don't know, I've just never once seen that done or heard of it being the proper thing to do.
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04-27-2017 , 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reducto
I don't know, I've just never once seen that done or heard of it being the proper thing to do.
It seems natural to me since a player buts the button between the button and the SB if there is no sb there is no reason to buy the button. And either way you have a dead button situation so make them post a blind dead

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04-27-2017 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
This is a call.




This is a raise and the player must complete the raise to the proper 2800 (unless he is all-in)



This is a raise



In my opinion it depends. I have seen a player do this in a way that clearly indicates he wants to raise and in my opinion that would be a raise. But this is not always clear ... shaking a chip doesn;t tell me much ... but jerking the hand upward screams raise. My experience is most floors will call it a call because they like to pretend that nonverbal communication is inherently unclear.



Same answer as #4



The TDA rules say a player moving from a broken set can assume the position of small blind .. so this player I say should post the small blind. The TDA rules unfortunately do not address the issue of a player taking a seat as a late registrant or alternate so house rules would apply. My inclination for a new player is that they post the BB, and there is a dead button on the next hand.

A player being moved to balance tables would post BB.
Yep. I concur except the guy with the 5k chip better make it very obvious he is raising. I'd say thumbs up jerking off motion is sufficient.
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