And if you're ever tipping more than $2 you're throwing your profits away...

In sort of related news, I played in a local small stakes donkament just for giggles a few nights ago. I was in the small blind at the 150-300 level and put out 2 black chips and folded to a raise. The big blind decided to help the dealer by making change for me out of her stack while the dealer wasn't watching. This obviously confused the dealer and slowed the game down for the amount of time it took for the bb to explain the action and for the dealer to catch on.

I often wonder if these helpful players just imagine the games grinding to a halt when they aren't around to lend a hand.

none of people who read that nonsense tip a lot anyway, but it's a race to the bottom alright

Five players see a flop. Check to the button, who bets. Action is on the SB, who is fiddling with his chips. It's tough to tell if he's considering his action, or just lost in space. I give him a few moments, before asking him if he's aware the action is on him.

"I said 'check'!", he grumbled, annoyed. "I guess you didn't hear that."

"We all heard it," I assured him. "Then, three other players checked, then the button bet, then I announced the amount of his bet, and turned to you--I guess *you* didn't hear THAT!"

I was going to post this in the thread about most ridiculous poker thinking heard at the table, but after writing it, this is the better thread.


A dealer's observations on washing the cards:

- I can't recall when a habitually winning player ever asked me to wash the cards. Even winning players in the midst of a losing session have never asked me to wash the cards.

- Being asked to wash the cards is better than being asked to get a new setup, I suppose.

- One time, this kid at a 1/2 table promised me a $1 tip every time I washed the cards. I wanted that $1 but I didn't want to slow the game down and annoy the other players, so I gave the cards a real quick "rinse" in between every hand for 30 minutes. I made an extra $15 or $20 in that down and nobody complained.

- Back in the day (10 or more years ago) Miccosukee Indian Casino in Miami used to require their dealers to wash the cards once every 3 hands. Dealers were subject to write ups and other disciplinary action (up to getting fired) if they failed to comply with this. Dealers would keep 3 white chips in one of the columns of their bank where missed blind buttons would typically be kept, and would remove one chip after each hand. When the column was empty, they'd remember to wash the cards and would then reset the column with 3 more chips. The best explanation I ever heard of why in the world a casino would ever voluntarily implement this ridiculous policy (which was guaranteed to slow the game down, and therefore reduce the room's revenue) was that someone in management figured out it would make it harder for a table to hit a big jackpot if the cards were constantly being re-randomized.

- It would be nice if someone would say, "Would you wash the cards please?" or "Dealer, please wash the cards." What I inevitably get is "Wash the cards." Or "Dealer, wash the cards."

- If you look at your cards before the flop, see J 3 offsuit, and immediately fold, requesting that I wash the cards before the next hand.... well there's about a 95% chance that I'm not going to remember your request by the time the current hand is over.

This post could also be in the pet peeve thread.

We completely banned asking for washes about a year ago. Certain Omaha players abused it way too much. We limited it to 3 washes per night per player but that was too hard (and stupid) to track between different dealers and floors. Then 1 wash per deck each down but the players who don't ever ask for washes hated that. So we banned it in the whole room except for required times in tournaments. Some 1-2 players whined for about a month but after a year nobody cares.

Where did the terms wash and rinse come from?

I would call it scrambling the cards, or a mini scramble.

In a similar vein, what's with casinos that make the dealers riffle the deck once before putting it in the shuffle machine? I haven't been able to get a straight answer from any of the offending casinos.

In tournaments I'm not supposed to wash the cards but I'll usually do it once per table when requested because it shuts them up and nobody complains. Actually I agree to wash the cards when requested but often forget to do it.

If you ask me nicely or flip me a buck, I don't mind washing the cards (and I'll make sure to do the second deck).

I do mind and tend to forget when you yell dealer and glare at me while miming the wash motion.

In Europe, we call it a chemmy(pronounced shemmy) shuffle.
I was baffled when I first read about washing the cards early on in this thread.

As a player who cares about wasted time, washes don't bother me every once in awhile because they only take a few seconds. But new deck requests really piss me off. Can anyone in the industry tell me why places even allow this? It cuts down on the rake they receive. When I played in Atlantic City there were no setup requests allowed; deck changed once every 12 hours. Seemed like a fine system to me.

I can't and that is why I do not allow it in my room.

I've never asked for a set-up. But I would not play in a place that would take that right from me.

Set-ups are for the suspicious. Unfortunately, they've been hijacked by the superstitious.

Today is first day of wsop. Good luck to any numbskulls playing the casino employee event.

Alas, it's also my Friday and the last day before points reset for calling out and I'm already at zero. Go sub zero and you don't get the reset tomorrow. So I have to show up and can't go till cut loose. But hey, I'll be 1st on the EO because it's my Friday!

Ohh, but there were callouts and bad scheduling for the next shift, so I get stuck working the full 8. Starting out the wsop time on my Friday, forced to do 8, and working for 30% less money is not my idea of leading into my weekend with a happy face. I may burn all my callout points this world series!

I've never had so many sub $10 downs in a shift that I can recall. Where's that wsop biotch thread!

As a player, I've only seen this asked for once and it was because a card was marked, not deliberately (I assume) but had a non-removable dirty patch on the back.

Asking for a deck change without a good reason should be declined IMO, takes too long to do frivolously.

Funny, I read about players asking for new setups all the time and it never happened to me as a poker room employee nor have I seen it happen as a player. I assumed that it was something that Vegas or other West Coast rooms dealt with all the time.

It happened for the first time the other night. Some terrible older black dude asked me for a new setup. I called over the floor and just said "Seat Two would like a word."

The floor guy was like, we change them out every 12 hours like the regulations say we should and that was it. The guy was not happy and went busto before my down was over, muttering as he left about how it was the cards fault.

The floor guy asked me after the push if he did the right thing. I said of course he did.

If I am lucky that will be the last time I get that request.

then that card needs to be replaced. bringing a whole new deck out bc of just one card is really silly, I'm glad that my home casino does not allow any of this rubbish

My room does frivolous deck changes as a matter of policy. We've got one guy who will invariably ask for 2-3 washes per down and a new setup about 1 out of every 10 downs that I come to his table. These are always accommodated.

No room I've ever worked in has allowed player requested setups.

It's so the losing players can blame their losses on the dealer instead of the machine.

Exactly. Suppose I think a player is somehow marking cards but I can't see how..... the easiest way to protect myself is get new decks in.

Look I hate the fact that superstitious players get set ups because they are ignorant ****s. But I also don't understand the amount of sheer hate for setups. Yes it takes a moment. But it's just a moment. To listen to some people here you would think changing out the decks takes hours

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Casino in Michigan has the dealer count the cards at the start of every down and if there is a deck change request they must count that deck as well. (Great deterrent of deck changes by the way.) This is a hand shuffle room.

1) Talk about lost revenue ... but these dealers also pool tips with the pit so ...
2) Talk about missed hands in a tournament!

It's fun (not really) to see players go running for the bathroom at the change. GL

Probably somewhere between a "moment" and "hours". I actually kinda forced a new setup the last time I was playing because I kept seeing cards that were being damaged from the shuffler. The rollers were discoloring parts of the backs of the cards. Saw one, got it replaced. Saw another from the other deck and that made the dealer look through the rest of them and she found several from both decks that were like that. Fortunately I was on my way out for the day so I don't know how long it took them to change them. I assume they switched out the shuffler too.

That makes me think of a dumb request from a player I had once. I had a fill come to my limit game one day. Of course all the players scatter for drinks or smokes or the restroom. This one particular day, a certain player didn't get back right away and missed a few hands in the process. The dealer paused him on the Bravo control as she's supposed to (we do a few time-based promotions). When he got back and realized he was paused he told me we shouldn't pause him because I forced the game to pause by doing the fill.

Of course he's the same player who came up to me one day with an idea for a new game. $20 ante (or $50 or whatever). Everyone gets 2 cards, and you just run out the board like Hold 'em but no betting. Everyone turns over their cards and you see who wins. I didn't have the heart to tell him how stupid that sounded.

Sure, if cards are actually marked, get a setup. I have done that once or twice myself, and obviously was not what I was talking about. I see no problem with a house offering a deck change when requested for that reason, but not for any other.

But what if I suspect that there are marked cards but can't prove it? I want to be safe but I don't want to make an accusation of cheating that I can't prove. So I just ask for new cards without suggesting I think there is something awry

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