Last night was my night off and for reasons still unknown to me, I agreed to go play O8 at my casino. We had 1 nine-handed game and 1 nine-handed must move game. At one point in the night, no less than 10 of the 18 seats were occupied by employees of the casino.

I'm wondering, because it never happened when I was a dealer, does anyone ever feel different when dealing to your peers or floors or even management?

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What would you do with two deaf players at a table who can speak well enough to declare their actions but converse with each other in ASL when not in a hand?

The same thing that I do with players who speak a foreign language. I tell them that they must leave the table if they are going to use a language other than English. (when we have a deaf group in for special tournaments we allow them to at all times in those events ..... and even though I don't understand sign I am 1000% positive that the conversation they are having violates OPTOH most of the time).

If they can't understand me I call the floor and it becomes the floors problem. This has happened and our management is clear about the rule.

I understand it is somewhat problematic because the nature of their language makes it such that even if they leave the table to converse someone at the table may be able to understand them by seeing them at a distance.... but my management is not going actually enforce a system which requires them to be completely out of sight of the table. I often tell players that is English only and one of them tell me that his buddy doesn't understand English. They tell me is thinking it somehow changes the issue. I tell them that they are free to speak their language as long as they step away from the table.

The rule in our room is English only at all times at the table. Personally I think this rule is inappropriate and unnecessary. I see no problem with foreign language in between hands (meaning no hand is going on). But they haven't put me in charge just yet. As a player I have no problem with two players speaking or signing another language in between hands because at that point they can not be violating OPTOH.

Often when I tell players it is English only they jump to tell me that they aren't cheating. Most of the time I really believe that the players aren't attempting to cheat ..... Just like I believe that the guy who in English announces that he thinks the bettor is bluffing (or I think you have two pair) while other players remain in the hand isn't trying to cheat. That still doesn't end the issue. Whether his intent was to cheat or not .... his inappropriate comment could influence play and I will speak up to put a stop to it. Just like the guy who tells someone else to call a bet ... most of the time its just a thoughtless comment the player think is being fun ...

A few weeks a go in the breakroom one of our co-workers was telling us a story about his play in an online tournament. He told us that one of our regular players was in the tournament at his table and they were talking on the phone. And during the course of this he mentioned that while they were chatting he had a big hand and told the other guy to fold. We all reacted with a "WTF" you guys are colluding in the tournament .... and by his reaction you could see that all of sudden he realized the significance of whet he said. He understand the issue .... but to him when it was happening he was even thinking about it. He was just talking to a friend and playing poker .... I think there is a lot of this that goes on in a foreign language conversation. The players aren't necessarily thinking hey ... lets go help each other and cheat they just aren't thinking about the impact of their statements.

But I do not discount the fact that their are a lot of players who think all is fair when you play for money. And I have had quite a few bilingual players tell me that they have had the experience of sitting in a game and hearing players who did not know they understood the language, openly and intentionally cheat in those games -- that is to say that while they had cards they would tell each other what they had and request them to take a particular action.

Excellent post, psand.

This is my weakest area as a dealer. I just can't completely crack the nut of getting people to STFU without making them feel like I'm accusing them of being dirty stinky cheaters. Some people are really cool about it, but some get really defensive and want to escalate. Part of the problem is that you can't unring a bell, and I try to stop it before it becomes egregiously inappropriate. The biggest fights in our poker room are from people feeling that someone's comments affected action, and it's usually among groups of friends. "Oh, but we're all buds here, it's okay." No, it's goddamn NOT okay.

Just last night I had some 30-ish guy who was sure to let us know all the books he'd read and the various poker aphroisms he'd taken to heart. We had a multi-way limped pot and someone bet out. He said, "Gotta be careful in a limped pot. Only bet or call with the nuts." Then he said it again, after someone called.

"I'm sorry, sir, but let's please not discuss a hand in progress, thank you."

"What? All I said was that limped pots are dangerous and you gotta be careful."

"Yes, that's exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't be said during a hand, thanks for your understanding."

"What, so we're not allowed to talk about cards at a card table?"

"Some of our biggest fights are when people feel a comment affected action. People lose a big pot and look for someone to blame."

"They should look inward and blame themselves. If someone yells at me I'm going to yell that right back."

"Yes, that's exactly what I'm hoping to avoid."

"People need to get over themselves. I'm allowed to say things like 'don't go broke with one pair' during a hand."

"That is another excellent example of exactly the kind of thing that's against the rules to say. Thank you for your understanding."

Dude proceeded to get butthurt and lose a couple of big pots. His preening stopped once he was down to a handful of chips.

It's just... WTF? I'm open to suggestions for other ways to handle it. I'm better than I used to be, but I can't seem to find that magic phrase. Of course, then you have the other side, where two buddies are chatting in Chinese, and the moment I say, "sorry, guys..." they'll say, "oh, English only, sorry sorry," and that's the end of it.

That is a tougher question as you are not telling them to talk in English only; you are essentially telling them that they cannot talk at all since ASL is their only way to communicate.

But they continue into the hand.
You have to remind them at least every other hand.
They argue that they don't have cards or get mad in general.

I like "English only at and around table while in use.".


Just like the guy who only speaks German. English only at the table please.

just excitement because i know im going to be making money

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The problem is that I can't find any game integrity reason to not allow foreign language between hands. The argument that it continues when there is a hand is just an issue of enforcement.

And there are plenty of time when this is not case. where players follow the rules.

The way I generally enforce my rooms no foreign language anytime at the table is to ignore players speaking foreign languages between hands until they become a problem and then enforce the rule fully. So if the guys just say few words between hands .... no problem. But if they keep going then I enforce the rule even between hands (although some of the regulars I think have figured out that my hearing is bad and they can get away with it if they keep the volume down)

As for the claim that telling a deaf person they can't sign at the table is like telling they can't speak at all thats the same story I get from foreign language speakers (He doesn't speak English so you are saying he can't speak at all .....) no I am saying he can't speak at the table, but when you guys are out of a hand feel free to step away from the table and speak any language you like.

Last time I played a female dealer sat down who was fast, but I could tell it was too fast. Felt like she probably made a high number of mistakes. She wouldn't even brings the bets in before putting out a flop. She would bring one bet in (or a blind), slide the burn card underneath that single bet, bring the flop, then collect bets. I kind of joked to myself that she probably leads the room in premature turn cards.

Sure enough, 5 minutes later. 3 players. Bet, call, burn, turn... FLOOR!

Agree with sandman.

The rule is "English only." not "English only unless you can't speak English and would therefore be unable to speak at all during the hand."

The integrity of the game reason is someone could be saying something about strategy or hand he folded, and some players still in the hand may understand and others may not.

There is a certain room (that I otherwise enjoy playing in) that actually instructs their dealers not to pull the bets in before putting out the flop. I saw 3 premature burn and turns during my session. Accuracy is more important than getting 1 more hand out during a down, IMO.

Im talking about between hands.

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I worked in such a room, and it was horrible. They also had draconian punishments. Do an early burn and turn? Your next shift is spent chip-running.

Yeah. I'm sure nobody ever self corrected....

I suppose then there is no real harm, except that in an efficient game there will be so little time between hands that not much could be said anyway.

Lol yuuuuup

This is an important aspect of table breaking. Happened to me just a few days ago.

I was playing at Red Rock (happy to out the room in hopes of change) on graveyard of course. We got to 5 handed. My big blind was going to come up next hand. "I'm going to go light up, I'll miss the big blind and buy the button guys".

So while I go light up and the hand finishes, the DEALER, says to the tourist, "you want to play 4 handed? he's gone." Referring to me. The tourist says no, and the dealer says there's 3 seats at the other game, so the remaining 3 can go.

Now just moments before, we agreed to keep the game going until 1 more seat opened so only 1 would be shut out on a draw for the seats rather than 2. 2/3 of the remaining regs took advantage "innocently" and didnt say a word and moved.

Not a single hand was dealt where I missed my BB, nor the tourist missed his, but the other 3 were allowed to move w/o a draw.

I had a long talk with the shift supervisor about this as it was just a ******ed event all around. He did say he would speak to the poker room manager about changing the rule so when short handed people are not penalized.

***** 20 minutes pass and the two "advantage takers" both go bust. I sit down to play, and not too long after I pick up JJ and flop JJ and end up winning $500 for the high hand of the period.

You agreed to play 5-handed. When you get up to smoke, the game is no longer 5-handed. You should ask the table if they're okay with you taking a break.

A coworker came to work today. The problem? She had requested the day off and got it. "Oh I forgot"

I cannot even fathom making that mistake.

Must've not been a very important reason for requesting it off.

Wow. This is hard to believe. I would be pretty pissed.

Nah, he said he'd be right back and buy the button. That's missing 2 hands if I am understanding him correctly. That dealer was out of line, obviously trying to get out of there.

Was playing at a diff casino and one dealer when pitching would pull the card off the deck with his thumb on top of the card right in the middle and 2 fingers on the bottom, one on each side of the thumb and pinching it hard enough to make the card bend around his thumb so both ends of the card lift up. It literally flashed the rank and suit of the card to the 3 players directly in front of him. I could see every card off the deck dealt to me as well as 2 players to my left and 2 players to my right. Insane...

I talked to the floor away from the table and he said "yeah, we've had this discussion with him before trying to get him to stop doing it. I will talk to him again."

Maybe it's just me, but if I had a dealer that I knew had this issue, I would not let them deal until they fixed it and I would continue to watch them deal to make sure it was no longer a problem.

Anyway, he came back to my table several more times through the night and it seemed like the next couple downs he was trying to not do it, but he still flashed 75% of the cards. smh

You should have just started shouting them out loud as you saw them.

Well, there's a difference between "mind if I take a quick break?" and "I'll be back." Plus, we all know players have a poor concept of how long they're away versus how many hands can be dealt in that time.

That said, I agree the dealer shouldn't try to break the game. But I wonder how he can know what was said if he was away from the table? Still, I get tilted when I hear dealers say things like, "four handed, no jackpot." I tell people to post their blinds and deal as quickly as I can. Hell, even floor people try to break games. I'm not a fan.