Just curious, was the dealer left handed or something? It is very rare that the muck pile is to the right of the dealer.

Honestly, I can't remember if she was right or left handed.. but I do know the chips (pot) was closer to me (her left) and the muck was to middle/right side of table.

This is freaking horrible. The Borgata is basically saying they allowed theft at their table and don't really care.

When you say "hand" I assume you mean his cards, not the thing attached to his wrist.

Given the fact you called for the floor and the floor was on the way over to address a concern several players had, this sounds like the most likely explanation.

Sorry for all the crap you have to go through because people refuse to admit mistakes.

@sactownjoey thanks bro.... this is a headache like you wouldn't believe... Non-stop phone tag and nobody has any answers (especially Borgata) when I do finally get a hold of someone... smh

PS- Yup, Seat 10's hand (cards) went into the muck pile as evidenced by the security footage and Poker manager explanation of footage.

Thanks for the reply, I just haven't seen that very often.

I hope it works out for you.

Well obviously Seat 10 is a scumbag and the offender here. But for this situation to happen there were a lot of people who dropped the ball.

• The dealer for dealing the next hand
• The floor manager for not taking the situation seriously
• Seat 8 for not speaking up when he witnessed clear cheating
• Security for not apprehending the guy and calling the police
• The manager for not refunding the money

If any one of these people did the right thing OP would probably not be in this situation. But of course Seat 10 caused the situation so he has 99.9% of the blame.

I really don't think Borgata has taken this seriously as they allowed this cheater to stay in the hotel an additional 2 days after the incident became a known fact.

This is why I want Seat 10's name because I want to let the Casinos in NJ, NY and PA know about this guy..

Also, I'm wondering if this player is ever observed back playing in Borgata without being banned if they can be sued for non-action of known cheating or some sorts like that.

If this happened at a table game and he took the casino's money, he would have been tackled minutes after they found out.

Obv they're trying to cover it up, figures it's not that important since it's just a patron's gambling money.

I wonder how fast they would pay you if you slip in your going to contact a lawyer. I wonder what a civil litigation gaming lawyer would recommend...

I'm all ears if anyone has any recommendations for a gaming attorney concerning this, however, I'm not trying to spend more money on a retainer than what I am actually owed, etc...

If anyone has any kind of experience with litigating against a casino I am open to all suggestions. I shouldn't have to be doing this much work to get back what the casino let get away and is responsible for IMHO.

Really hope borgata does the right thing and makes you whole. Floor man butchered ruling they are kind of at fault if all details are correct.

This is the rare thread, indeed. Usually, an OP says, "I was wronged!", and the longtime posters who are dealers and floors say, "TS, it's on you to protect yourself at all times, don't cry to us..."

...but this time, none of those long-time posters/cardroom employees are doing that. Suit didn't do that, and I won't, either.

I agree with his assessment that the casino should cut the check in this spot--but I realize fully how easy it is for me to spend other people's money. I also realize that my (our) motivation is to right a wrong. But businesses don't cut checks to right wrongs, they need a reason that helps their bottom line (don't be mad about that, that's a business' whole reason for existing). Our passions have been inflamed by the egregiousness of this affair, but a business has no passion to be inflamed.

So I'll only point out that this check should be cut to help the bottom line. That number at the bottom of the page is going to get smaller and smaller, as long as this thread with your name next to the word "cheating" is prominently featured on a page belonging to what I believe is the largest poker community on the internet. "Cheating" is a very inflammatory word around here. It is ROUTINE to take it down when used improperly (ie, "the dealer mucked my hand, I was cheated by Casino X!", is not allowed to fly, and if the author won't retract it, the moderators will remove it). No one has suggested yet that the C-word has been used improperly here, and that speaks volumes. I thought you should know that.

This is NOT the usual case. Short of coming in here and disputing the facts laid out by OP, it would be a mistake to handle it the usual way.

This is key. I have, over the years, witnessed a few (thankfully, only a few) suspicious hands, and with some floors there's sometimes this rush to pay out the pot and move on. I've never understood that. The good floors get to the bottom of the situation quickly, figure out if the person who is complaining has a reasonable case, and if she does, don't let the pot get paid out or the chips get cashed in until the tapes are reviewed. It takes less than 5 minutes to check surveillance and make sure there was nothing wrong.

Curious how much of this is basically the same sort of internal issues United had when they merged with Continental. Lots of unhappy employees on both sides with that one, and in this case, Borgata is now MGM.

My guess, unfortunately, is they don't do much beyond a comped night or two and maybe some reward credits...if that much. And now that the State Police are involved, it is easier for them to be hands off because, after all, now it is a legal matter.

how on earth did dealer or other players besides 8 not see the guy rummaging thru the muck?

its hard to even fathom that happening. do people really pay close to no attention?

I don't know how to explain it.... this hand from the aspect of how it played out, where I was sitting (seat 3), where Cheater was sitting (seat 10) and how dealer acted combined to form the perfect storm to allow the cheating to take place, which was escalated by the Floor Supervisor refusal/non-action to call for security review right away.

This has changed me forever in how I handle showdowns that I am involved in.

Maybe people are different where you're from, but one person paying attention at a poker table sounds about right to me.

You should blow them up on all social media, and maybe make a couple calls to local media. The more noise you make the more likely you are to get a positive result. since the didn't outright dismiss you, and let the police get involved I'd infer you're in the right here.

It's a shame how poorly this room is run, hope It works out in end.

You're right that aside from the cheater, dealer and floor get total blame for this. I hope you get your money back - your complaint may be one of the most founded complaints I've ever read.

But consider how long you've played and the frequency at which this happens. Consider what you would have done to prevent this, and how much time or effort would have been wasted in every other scenario. It's very natural to overreact to something big but infrequent.

There's really not much you could have done that doesn't imapct the game negatively in the 99.99999% of hands where this doesn't happen. The only thing I can think of is that before leaving the table you could have asked people to not let Seat 10 leave.

You should "blow up" Borgata's social media, but I think others can help you by keeping petty **** off of social media. Just from what I've seen, there's a baseline of random, petty complaints, and everyone here who uses Facebook or Twitter or whatever elze Borgata may have should retweet/like/whatever your postso that it stands out.

Also if anyone from the Borgata is reading this thread, you owe OP money equivalent to the pot. Make it right between you and OP, and then you can go after the cheater/thief to get your money back instead of shrugging your shoulders and making OP chase the cheater/thief down. I have nothing to do with the OP, by the way, I just think that's what you do as a business.

Thank you for that post... and as you have clearly stated, I have been playing poker for a long long long time and something like this incident has never crossed my mind happening in a Mainstream B/M Casino.. As I sit here now and reflect if there was anything different I could do given the circumstances... the answer is an honest "NO"!

There was only speculation of why Seat 10 took so long to show a hand especially after it appeared as though he mucked his hand. I couldn't stop Seat 10 from leaving the table on speculation (as no-one at the table really thought his actions would actually turn out to be this egregious) and once the cheating was verified via Security footage, I was then left to the mercy of Borgata as I was told they would handle it... Little did I know that "handling it" meant sending a few emails and not making physical contact with the person as he stayed in the hotel an additional day or two and then letting him leave...

Who knows even if the Borgata even actually banned this guy! and it sucks that I have to chase this guy down now via the NJ State Police and filing complaints to the NJ gaming commission.

I would love to have a Representative of the Borgata (MGM) come on 2+2 and explain their view/side of things of why they feel they handled it right and why they feel they are not responsible! I guess having millions of dollars of security camera, facial recognition, etc.. is only for the the protection of the Casino and not the patrons... Borgata's motto should be "you won't cheat the Borgata, but our Patrons are fair game!"

Hopefully this thread prevents another player from getting screwed over and hammers home that the Casnino's don't give a "F" about you/or your winnings.. When in doubt or wronged then call the police immediately yourself. Big Lesson learned for me... and the sad part is that this CHEATER will be playing in other casinos in the NJ, NY and PA areas... smh

[QUOTE=Playbig2000;52570778]If this happened at a table game and he took the casino's money, he would have been tackled minutes after they found out.

^^^^^ That's the ticket right there. ^^^^^

They have cameras to cover every half inch of players at a blackjack table, but schmucks in the poker room ? Who cares. Borgata will use every loophole in the process to weasel out of doing anything.

They are apathetic and incompetent at best, corrupt and complicit at worst.

This story is a great reminder to be really observant at the table, and not assume the house will do anything.

Yeah, if that had happened at a BJ or other table where someone plays against the house, the course of action wouldve been very different, you can bet on that

Please continue to keep us updated with your interactions with everyone.

In particular, the Gaming commission. What was their initial reaction?

@punkass and @youtalkfunny

I will definitely keep this thread updated to any happenings/non-happenings concerning this incident.

I reached out the NJ State Police (they are the gaming enforcement side of the police and it's in the hands of DET. Clemons)

As far as the NJ Gaming commission, I filled out the complaint form and filed it 2 days ago (via email).. I received an email stating that someone would be in contact with me regarding the incident shortly from the Gaming Commission.. still waiting to hear back.

This absolutely sucks . an incident like this kind of happened to me at seneca NY when I had higher flush and dealer grabbed my cards mucked my hand and pushed pot to guy with lower flush . Half the table seen my cards and so did other guy with lower flush but when the floor come over he lied saying he thought he won pot and wouldn't give up money so the floor put pot to the side and and reviewed tape came back gave me money . However I had to stand up make a seen and basically almost physically stop dealer from dealing until floor came over . It sucks when something like this happens you as a player really have to make a stink ,yell,stomp,etc. Get the whole rooms attention the scumbag should of never been able to get up and run out b4 situation is resolved . and borgata floor should of made sure of that and or called security just another example of staff dragging there feet. Just follow through with what state police told you to do and call borgata poker room every ****ing day demanding answers. Then make sure your story is told . it may be frustrating and game consuming and it may appear that borgata docent give a **** but they have a chain of command and that guy should of never been able to get up and cashout I don't give a **** I would of physically stopped him myself that will get security there quickly . You really have to pay attention to dealers who miss **** these days it happens often . gl