Stop being paranoid. There are no teams in the 8-16 game.

They aren't being paranoid. They're being corrupt. Two guys with 22 posts between them, who both joined up the same month, coming here to post allegations about cheating at the Venetian?

Bellagio dealers or floor, most likely, trying to sabotage the V's action. Pathetic, but if you know anything about the B's staff, not surprising.

^^^I think you're giving the Bellagio way too much credit for trying to improve their room...from the complaints I read about the staff there in different threads, I can't imagine anyone from the Bellagio exerting as much effort as creating 2 usernames and making 2 posts...but if they are, maybe they should put some effort into addressing players concerns about how crummy its gotten there.

I'm not agreeing with the post that was made (I have not seen anything of concern at any of the major vegas casinos yet, for what it's worth)... I simply said thanks to whoever made the post to be on the lookout for softplaying etc at all casinos as a general guideline...which as I said is something all players should be on the lookout for regardless of the casino they're at. If anyone thinks anything wrong is occurring, it's probably best to just ask the dealer or floorman to keep an eye on things. No big deal.

No affliliation with Bellagio or other guy on this post. Just from what I observed. Too much checking it down once all the non locals are out of the hand. It happens a lot and not just in the 8/16 game and the V, but in many games around town. I did not see this at the Bellagio games that were being mentioned. Looks like I am not the one being paranoid.

A lot of times the Venetian will have one 8/16 table going. There was one going last night (which was Saturday night). Unfortunately, I have been there during times when there was no 8/16 game at all.

FWIW, I did the last time I was there.

I agree there's lots of locals who know each other and check it down, but disagree that this constitutes any sort of "team." There are plenty of people who check it down in my "home" casino too.

Nits gonna nit.

I was at Bellagio for the first time since the change over in limits. Just thought I'd report back my findings of the games.

My first day I sit in the $20-40 I immediately noticed the game was much tougher then the $15. At first glance, the play seemed similar to the $15 game and I recognized a number of faces in the game. However, the problem was that the horrible players were missing. We had a bunch of average to above average and a few players who I think are very good players, but we had no one who was awful. In the past, the $15 game had the average, above average, and really good players, but it always included 1 or 2 terrible players that I could beat up on. After playing everyday for a week, I'd say I only met one person I thought was a true calling station. (For those who know me, some of you may think I'm that calling station ;-) but I'm not *the* calling station I'm referring too!) And, more importantly, I didn't see any of the crazy people who constantly raise and re-raise with any two napkins. I really missed having that type of player in the game.

On the flip side, the $10-20 was very easy. The players mostly played straight forward, other then a few who were waiting for a seat in the $20 game. And, we did have a couple calling stations in the mix as well. A raise meant someone had the goods, so it was relatively easy to play against the field. I only played the $10-20 twice, so that may be an anomaly, but from talking to other people, it seems this is normal style for the $10 game. Since there isn't much raising, the pots are pretty small, but you can certainly take your fair share of those small pots easily.

I never played as a high as $40, so I can't report on that game except to say that someone told me the $20 game is the toughest game in the room now. He said the $40 game is actually a better game. I guess the reasoning is that the average tourist who wants to play middle limit used to play $15, but is now playing $10. The rich guy tourist who wants to play middle limit used to play $30 but is now playing $40. So, the middle of the road $20 is stuck with only people who know what they are doing. (Just my thoughts - I could be wrong)

Anyway, I just thought I'd share my experience. I'll be back in July and probably play more $10-20 instead of the $20-40 next trip. (I lost $2k in $20-40 for anyone who cares. Maybe that's what soured me on it, but $2k over a week in a $20 game is not a bad loss by any means!)

Thanks for the info - this is exactly what I was looking for in coming to this thread.

One question though - any idea what days you were there? I want to play the 10/20 the next time I am there, and see how it compares to the Mirage 10/20 game from a couple years ago. I also want to see how often it runs and figure out how to divide my time between all the poker I plan on playing. I guess I'm mainly asking if the 10/20 is just one of those things that gets going on Fri, Sat, or if it's a regular, steady, daily thing.

Also, have you played the 8/16 at Venetian? How does the 10/20 at Bellagio compare, if so?

The 8/16 seemed at the V did seem full of locals, but the games could be very good or very bad either way. Is the 10/20 a bunch of locals?

I played the 15 at B once and it wasn't a great game... I just hope the 10/20 isn't kind of the same thing...

Ventian 8 is gone. They started spreading 10/20 this past weekend. Getting 2 tables normally during the daytime.

wow. I am surprised the V abandoned their 8.

I played 10/20 on a wed afternoon at the Hellagio. It was worthless. One loose player. Half of the table was on an interest list for 20 that they didn't want to start. Everyone was an experienced LHE player and 75% of the pots were raised. Chopping the blinds was common. There of course was the usual regs checking it down vs each other; I saw aces up vs a str8 check the turn and river, but it was rare.

Photoc - I was just there the week surrounding the memorial day holiday. The $10-20 and $20-40 games went everyday. There were 3-4 $20 games each day, and as far as I could tell, 1-2 $10 games. It seemed the $20 game always had a long list, but you could usually get a seat in the $10 quickly.

As for comparison of the $10 B game to the Mirage game from a couple years ago - I thought the B game was much softer. The Mirage game always had a couple of aggressive players (although the other players in that game were usually extremely soft). The two times I played the B game, there were no aggressive players. It was stunningly soft, but like I stated in my original post, it's possible those 2 days I played the $10 game were an anomaly.

I would like to add that I didn't see regs checking it down once the entire trip, which differs from DeadMoneyWalking's experience. I played everyday for a week and didn't see it happen in either of the stakes that I played. I did see quite a few blind chops in the $10 game. It seemed in the $10 game we either had a chop or we had 5-6 players in the pot. There wasn't a lot of in-between with 2-4 players in the pot. The $20 game chopped much more rarely, but a lot of hands were heads up or 3 players. Of course, that's a just a general statement, each hand or table could be a little different.

I didn't make it to the Venetian at all, so I can't comment on their games this past week.

I would like to add a disclaimer since DeadMoneyWalking had a different experience then me. My disclaimer is that game conditions can obviously vary based on time of day, the week of the year, etc. Especially in Vegas when just a couple of a very bad tourists game change a bad game into a great game. I was there during a holiday weekend, so maybe there were more weaker players around the $10 game (although they certainly didn't show up in the $20 game!). And, I'd also like to add that everyone's opinion of a game can vary. Just because I think it's an easy or difficult game, someone else may disagree based on their style of play. For example, I regularly beat up on the $15 game, but Photoc mentions he thought it wasn't a great game. I always thought that $15 game was one of the best games I've ever played in! That game was like taking candy from a baby!

Is the 20 game timed or raked? From what my fuzzy memory tells me, the 15 was raked and the 30 was time, so I would assume the 40 is time and 10 is rake...what is the 20?

20 is 5 a half

I thought the 10-20 was great a couple weeks ago when I was there, although it was the weekend...definitely better than most the 8-16 games I've played in at Casino AZ lately. I will be there again this weekend but will call Venetian first to see if they have games running since they have a better room. Bellagio is so cramped and I hate 10-handed tables.

Would love to hear any thoughts/experiences from the 40 game recently. Is it going every day, and is it true what someone recently postulated that the 40 game is actually better than the 20 for the aforementioned reasons?

Anyone selling that the 20 is the toughest game in the room is either putting you on, or is just dumb. The 80-160 is the toughest, AINEC. The 40 game is soft enough, but not some gold mine. Indeed, I'll take the tougher players at 80 and assume my hourly is higher there than in the 40. Also, judging the Bell games on day 1 of WSOP seems really foolish. WSOP season changes everything.

That is awesome! I love the cheap Bellagio rake. At CAZ, it is $7.

Im sure they meant the 20 is tougher than the 40, which still isn't true.

I would agree that if you took an average 20 and an average 40 and was asked who the worst player between the two was, there would be a good chance he would be at the 40 table,but that alone doesn't make the game easier.


But ya, the twenty hasn't been anything to write home about. As far as the 10, I'd say its somewhat comparable to the old Mirage 10 games. The bottom end is probably a little lower and the top end is probably a little better, but in general the regulars play about the same as they did at the Mirage.

I played at B for several hours tonight. They had three 20 games and three 40 games going. It was a zoo. I was looking forward to getting into some good games. I put myself on both lists and was called for the 20 in about 20 minutes. The game was alright but not great. It was 50% pros 25% semi-competant and 25% fish. About two hours later I got called for the 40. The table I was seated at was horrible. No explanation necessary, it was just a bad game. After one orbit I asked for a table transfer. I realized there were three people at my table also waiting for a table transfer lol. The players who replaced the players ahead of me were equally difficult and skilled. When they finally transferred me to another game, a guy whose seat I was taking had been waiting to get transferred from that game as well (not a good sign), and he took the seat that I just vacated. Musical f-cking chairs. Nobody wanted to be in the game they were in because all the games were horrible.

Every table in the room was being used, people everywhere, cramped conditions, constant shouting on the mics, a zillion pages of names waiting for the small stakes NL games.. I won a couple pots at my new game, sat out for a while and ate some dinner, which also took three years to order my food at the snack bar, returned to the game and saw that the only bad player at my table who I was lucky enough to have position on sat out at his BB and I decided to say f this and just got up and left. I doubt I'll be returning any time soon, think I'll be focusing on the actual WSOP this trip.

I hate it when players do this. Play a few pots, disappear for a few hours, return, pick up their chips and leave. So annoying.

I love it when players do that, especially good players. Shorthanded FTW!

702 693-8864

Thats the number to the Bellagio Snack Bar. Use it. Call and place your order and then show up 10 minutes later and skip the line and pay where you pick up your food.

I called from the line once.

Nice one, thanks. Yeah, I agree with you guys, it's not cool, but this was sort of an extreme example.