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Old 02-25-2014, 06:16 PM   #51
callipygian
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Originally Posted by ch4nc305 View Post
so your basically stating anyone who dosn't have cash on them to play and asks some one to float them for a week has a gambling problem.
Yes. Because there is always the option NOT TO GAMBLE for the non-addicts.

Maxed out a debit card for a night? You could always go home. Can't withdraw due to a tax lien? Maybe you shouldn't be gambling, period.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:03 PM   #52
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by ChicagoTroy View Post
You can determine he's broke in this case because in the OP it was stated by the borrower that the check wouldn't clear until next week.

Otherwise, you can apply critical thinking. There are a lot more degens who borrow money and never pay it back than there are guys who have complicated tax reasons for being unable to access money to gamble with.

This forum is absolutely deluged by stories of guys getting taken by degens who seemed like good guy regs or even poker celebrities who were totally good for the money they borrowed. It is insane to loan money in a casino.
Idk this guy has a check who cares if he is broke atm he gave you a check with a date stating he gets paid on that date so you can collect your 200$s your floating him a loan for a week i dont think to many regulars out there are going to risk there reputation and credit score over a 200$ loan, in 5 years ive loaned at least 1000 times to a group of 50ish poker players ive to this date never not gotten my money back yeah ive been ****ed and had to wait but it all comes down to trust if you know the guy loan him the money i doubt hes going to want a confrontation for 200$s it goes back to these same idiots posting id never even loan my friends money cuz there's no benefit, the benefit is if you run into that experience they should be doing the same .
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:15 PM   #53
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
Yes. Because there is always the option NOT TO GAMBLE for the non-addicts.

Maxed out a debit card for a night? You could always go home. Can't withdraw due to a tax lien? Maybe you shouldn't be gambling, period.
Your an idiot you don't have a gambling problem because you borrow 200$s and intend to pay it back, Problem gambling often is defined by whether harm is experienced by the gambler or others, rather than by the gambler's behavior. A regular in a poker room asks for 200$s and predates a check with intention of paying it back isnt a problem gambler, if he asked several people and had a history of not paying back then yes but the OP didnt state any of that nature and usually in most casinos that info is talked about regularly ...
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:48 PM   #54
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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I play in a game which has a pretty small player pool of around 25-30 players. For the most part they are 'recreational regs' in that they play the game a few times a week, but they all have other jobs and sources of income.

Some of them want to borrow money because they don't want to use their card at the cashier and the transaction come up on their bank statements, some of them don't want to use the ATM in the casino because it has a charge for use, and some are just short until payday.

It's in my interest to keep them in the game, I have an edge on them, they're prob not playing their A game if they've blown through the money they came with and it keeps the game running when it can often get shorthanded and break.

nut response to this if your uncomfortable say no otherwise if you feel its not a risk loan away idiots on this post stating that everyone whos ever asked is a degen who wont pay back are morons

If they've got a good rep for paying back, I'll generally lend it, I defo don't see it as a gift and I expect to be paid back promptly, at the same time i'm not lending sums of money which are going to have a major impact on my financial position if it's not paid back or there is a delay in paying back. I also don't lend to someone who already owes me.

Overall I think the value of keeping them in the game and the goodwill generated by helping them out outweighs the financial risk of not been repaid. The biggest drawback is getting a reputation for lending money and having randoms or people with a bad rep asking to borrow, but I'm pretty comfortable just saying no to them.

When it comes to close friends outside poker, then I can't even remember the last time it was asked, but i'd have no problem lending to any of them.
nut response to this if your uncomfortable say no otherwise if you feel its not a risk loan away idiots on this post stating that everyone whos ever asked is a degen who wont pay back are morons
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:06 PM   #55
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Idk this guy has a check who cares if he is broke atm
Almost everybody. At least normal people and non-normal people who nonetheless pay attention to money management.

You're obviously part of the minority poker culture that thinks borrowing money to gamble when you have an empty checking account is nothing to worry about, so it seems normal to you. It isn't normal among players who keep a bankroll or play way within their means (overwhelming majority of non-problem gamblers).

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in 5 years ive loaned at least 1000 times
For this to be true, even if you went to the casino every other day for 5 years, you'd have to loan money people 9 out of every 10 trips. Ease up on the fiction.

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the benefit is if you run into that experience they should be doing the same .
Since borrowing money for gambling with an empty checking account is not unthinkable to you, you may want to consider getting some help.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:07 PM   #56
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

I live in a very rich community and I think dng said it best when he said there are two types of loans in poker: loan because someone doesn't have it or loan because someone doesn't have it on them. When I played HS if a really wealthy fish was down 6+k in the game and didn't want to go under the mattress to reload you're damn ****ing right I'm going to lend him the money to keep playing, or if one of my 2/5 friends is down what they brought that day in a sick game, or when we are traveling and people tend to bring less money I will lend.

a no lending policy is too selfish for me. Poker has to have a sense of common struggle.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:26 PM   #57
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I have loaned to friends and haven't had a problem in a long time. When I use to loan to Not so close friends I charged 20% juice due every Friday or the interest is tacked on to the principle and the juice runs.....I don't get juice or settled in two weeks I find you to discuss....at your work, your home, and/or your family's homes...Only twice have I had to "find" someone. Debts were settled all was good. BUT its a pain in the ass and not worth the effort or juice anymore to me so friends and family only....
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:32 PM   #58
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In most casinos, panhandling is against the rules and the person can be banned. We have a huge problem with this at Foxwoods. There are several guys who owe thousands to players who have loaned them money
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:41 PM   #59
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

Have lent money to friends at casinos multiple times but always been paid back in a reasonable timeframe. If your going to borrow money to someone you dont know well put it in writing and have a witness sign it. If your willing to take this gamble.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:59 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ch4nc305 View Post
Your an idiot you don't have a gambling problem because you borrow 200$s and intend to pay it back, Problem gambling often is defined by whether harm is experienced by the gambler or others, rather than by the gambler's behavior.
LOL
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:02 PM   #61
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

at least one poster hit the nail right on the head here when they made reference to being in a casino when someone asks you for money. if this guy is not a total degen, he can wait a day (or few days or weeks) until he actually has some money to play. anyone that desperate for cash to play might not be the best person to trust.

i personally don't loan money that i expect to get back.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:51 PM   #62
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by ChicagoTroy View Post
Almost everybody. At least normal people and non-normal people who nonetheless pay attention to money management.

You're obviously part of the minority poker culture that thinks borrowing money to gamble when you have an empty checking account is nothing to worry about, so it seems normal to you. It isn't normal among players who keep a bankroll or play way within their means (overwhelming majority of non-problem gamblers).


For this to be true, even if you went to the casino every other day for 5 years, you'd have to loan money people 9 out of every 10 trips. Ease up on the fiction.


Since borrowing money for gambling with an empty checking account is not unthinkable to you, you may want to consider getting some help.
as i said you have no clue what the situation if the dude says he could pay you next month dosn't mean hes broke maybe hes responsible and sets an amount to gamble with and will not gamble the next week if he loses that 200 i mean is this a serious topic some one who writes a post dated check is automatically a gambling problem degen not everyone in poker follows bankroll managment most people are recreational and play as entertainment
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:58 PM   #63
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

ive ran a home game where i get alot of guys who are broke live paycheck to paycheck to keep my game going i loan money out so yes ive loaned 1000 times ive been playing poker since i was 14 im 27 now i know ive loaned money alot of times maybe not 1k exactly but roughly around that ... im not saying every clown who wants to borrow go ahead its a judgement call like i said but to say everyone doing this is a degen is retarded
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:10 PM   #64
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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ive ran a home game where i get alot of guys who are broke live paycheck to paycheck to keep my game going i loan money out so yes ive loaned 1000 times ive been playing poker since i was 14 im 27 now i know ive loaned money alot of times maybe not 1k exactly but roughly around that ... im not saying every clown who wants to borrow go ahead its a judgement call like i said but to say everyone doing this is a degen is retarded
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as i said you have no clue what the situation if the dude says he could pay you next month dosn't mean hes broke maybe hes responsible and sets an amount to gamble with and will not gamble the next week if he loses that 200 i mean is this a serious topic some one who writes a post dated check is automatically a gambling problem degen not everyone in poker follows bankroll managment most people are recreational and play as entertainment
so your two examples of not being a degen are: 1) living paycheck to paycheck and not having money to gamble with so they can ask for a loan, and 2) setting a personal limit on how much to gamble but when you reach that limit they can ask for a loan

...um...all right then...
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:10 PM   #65
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by ch4nc305 View Post
as i said you have no clue what the situation if the dude says he could pay you next month dosn't mean hes broke maybe hes responsible and sets an amount to gamble with and will not gamble the next week if he loses that 200 i mean is this a serious topic some one who writes a post dated check is automatically a gambling problem degen not everyone in poker follows bankroll managment most people are recreational and play as entertainment
A guy walking around a poker room asking people people he barely knows to lend him money against a post dated check is not a responsible gambler.

Whether or not he has a gambling problem is going to depend a lot on your definition of a gambling problem ....

but it is absurd for you to suggest he is being responsible.


Now the lawyer in me comes out on the issue of lending money.

Lots of problems arise even when the borrower "is a good guy". He may really have the intent and the capacity to pay when he says .... until something else happens.

He budgets $200 to pay you back when he gets his paycheck ..... but the next day his car gets towed for illegal parking and the $200 he intended to pay you back with ends up having to go to get his car back. Who do you think gets the $200 you or the impound lot?

If the guy is already at the point of needing to write a post dated check borrow money to gamble with .... then he is probably at the edge of his means .... meaning even if he can afford to pay you back its just barely ....
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:27 PM   #66
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

again OP stated he knew the guy he was a regular ...
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:36 PM   #67
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by pfapfap View Post
"No."

Regarding loaning money to friends, only do it if you're comfortable never seeing the money or the friend ever again.

Give gifts, not loans.
100% this. If they really need it just give it to them. If they give it back, great.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:56 PM   #68
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

well i dunno could see both ways i would say never lend a guy a casino could bee a degen true but may be a reguler of coarse!! still may be degen or not weather reguller or not ch4nc305 make a good arguement perpahps need too re think their was a time when nether be a borrow or lendor but times are changes to so got to hand one too ch4nc305 the more you read him the more sense it all make thanks for oppening my eye too see both side of these isuse
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:20 AM   #69
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

Someone asked me for money for money for a taxi after watching me stack up 700$ in 1/2 that I didn't know. I was wondering why he kept watching me. Eventually, I felt bad enough and told him if he let me pat him down I would just give him a ride. He obliged.

Funny thing is he is actually a good player, I played with him a few weeks later, I think he just got tilted and blew his money that day.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:34 AM   #70
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by frommagio View Post
well i dunno could see both ways i would say never lend a guy a casino could bee a degen true but may be a reguler of coarse!! still may be degen or not weather reguller or not ch4nc305 make a good arguement perpahps need too re think their was a time when nether be a borrow or lendor but times are changes to so got to hand one too ch4nc305 the more you read him the more sense it all make thanks for oppening my eye too see both side of these isuse
That's awful
Spoiler:
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:01 AM   #71
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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100% this. If they really need it just give it to them. If they give it back, great.
Can I borrow $1,000? I really need it.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:09 AM   #72
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by ch4nc305 View Post
Your an idiot you don't have a gambling problem because you borrow 200$s and intend to pay it back, Problem gambling often is defined by whether harm is experienced by the gambler or others, rather than by the gambler's behavior.
Be careful when you throw terms like idiot around, be sure you actually know what you're talking about.

For instance : the legal definition of harm includes the loss of money in a transaction.

The borrowing and losing and subsequent not repaying of money is action of the gambler - which is synonymous with the behavior of the gambler.

So - if the gambler borrows $200, loses, doesn't repay, the lender has, indeed, experienced harm caused by the behavior of the gambler who borrowed money with the promise to repay which then wasn't kept.

It's funny how words mean things...
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:17 AM   #73
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Can I borrow $1,000? I really need it.
Context: "Regarding loaning money to friends, ..."

...but nice try. :-)
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Old 02-27-2014, 01:36 PM   #74
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

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Originally Posted by Skeptic1559 View Post
Someone asked me for money for money for a taxi after watching me stack up 700$ in 1/2 that I didn't know. I was wondering why he kept watching me. Eventually, I felt bad enough and told him if he let me pat him down I would just give him a ride. He obliged.

Funny thing is he is actually a good player, I played with him a few weeks later, I think he just got tilted and blew his money that day.
That was nice of you. I would personally be really put off by the fact that this unknown guy was eyeballing my money at the table, hoping to ask me for some later. That's one of the awkward things about poker; everyone sees at least the amount of money you cash out, if not more. That guy just as easily could have been the type who'd rob or steal from you rather than asking nicely. (After all, good player or not, he's a degen if he gambled away so much money that he has to beg for a ride home.)

A lot of the time, I won't even take out my "travel roll" at the cage when I cash. If there's a scumbag out there, he's probably got his eye on the cage. I'll just pocket the cash and then go into a bathroom stall to tuck it away properly. Naturally, doing this can't stop people from knowing that you just took $700 off the table, but it can stop them from knowing that you had another $1,500 on you when you did it.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:08 PM   #75
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Re: Being Asked to Lend Money at a Casino

I have loaned money to "friends" on several occasions and have even been burned before (something small like $100). I am really starting to hate loaning out money now though, as others have said, there is little upside for me.

Most the time it takes longer to get paid back than you are originally told, so even when you get paid back the $300 in full 3 months later you could have used that $300 to make money, hell even in a savings account you would make a few pennies. Instead you have made nothing and had $300 less dollars in your pocket for months and there are usually arguments about, "well, I think you only gave me $280" or something like that, which are just headaches and a pain in the ass. And this is with good friends that have a record of paying back.

I would never loan money to someone I did not know. I may throw a guy $20 to cab it home or something and if he wants to pay me back later, whatever, but no way am I giving someone I don't know money. If he is a reg in the room, but has already blown his paycheck and can't get in a game, then he is not a winning reg and you getting paid back is not guaranteed.

If he was such a great player that just happened to have some unexpected bills or something come up he could easily get a loan from a family member or a good friend in the interim. I mean, if I needed money I would ask my parents first, then another family member, and then friends. I would not go to some guy that I had "seen around" and ask for money.

So if he is asking random people in the room has very likely already exhausted all other options and either people have not loaned him since they are already owed money from him, they have been burned by him in the past, or they do not trust him to pay them back due to him burning others in the past.
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