bear with me becuase this is confusing. So im in a 3 way pot against two kids that clearly know eachother and are friends. Stack sizes and earlier action are irrelevant. Im first to act and open shove bottom set for like a PSB. Player 1 takes a minute and calls. Player 2 looks at his friend, smirks, and says "you give me my money back if I call and lose to you here right?", player 1 clearly embarrassed and surprised his friend said this outloud just nods his head. Immediately I want to call the floor but in the heat of the moment I said nothing. I knew I had both of them beat. player 1 shows TPTK and player two goes give me a diamond. River blanks and I triple up.

So clearly, player 1 and 2 had an agreement that if they lose a pot to one another the winner gives the other player their money back, out of their pocket I assume. Clearly this is cheating because player 2 was essentially free rolling to crack me with a flushdraw on the turn, knowing he gets his money back if player 1 wins. Clearly a play he wouldn't have made had it been either heads up with me or three handed with another player other than his buddy.

I know my ethics are probably going to get torn to shreds for not calling the floor right then and there. But I was so enraged I felt justice would be just taking their money. am I a scumbag? So i rack up and leave. tell the floorman what happened. he pulls both of the players in question aside, says something then after 10 seconds they both sit back down. what on earth do you think was said to the players? did i do the wrong thing? am i correct that two players in the same game that give eachother their money back if one of them wins vs the other (including against other players in a multiway pot) is cheating?

just curious to get some input on this. thanks guys

I mean yeah it's cheating but you shouldn't be so pissed with your exact hand because you had player 1 drawing dead so player 2 was not in fact free rolling at all. You should be ecstatic with how player 2 put in X amount of money with 6 outs with 1 card to come

yeah, i was lucky to win that hand against two players cheating. But its a disgrace to the game and the other players who im sure they've robbed without anyone noticing or saying something. Apathetic much towards angleshooting?

there are so many examples where being in multiway pots with these guys puts players at a huge disadvantage. an unfair one at that

So call the floor.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. Confirmation that they were colluding? Sure, you got it. Next time just call the floor over when it happens and let them deal with it.

I dunno what was said to them, or why they were allowed to keep playing. Maybe they denied it. Maybe the floor kept tabs on them from that point on. Who knows.

if you read my post i did call the floor afterwards. i was implying that a ten second "talking to" was just a quick warning. floor didn't seem to concerned. both players sat back down and played like nothing happened. its a bit concerning to someone who plays their everyday that the floor doesn't seem to care

Sorry, I employed a ninja edit while you were replying.

"If you are colluding, stop doing it."

It's Foxwoods — you kind of have to roll with things like this if you want to play there and stay sane. To be honest, this exact situation might not have been handled differently (after the fact) at many other casinos, even though it maybe should be.

Sorry you felt violated. I'm glad it worked out for you!

Who knows what the floor said to them. If you wanted to know, you should've stayed and honetly I would've demanded that they not be allowed to play at the same table, which is probably what the floor should've done anyway given you explanation of events.

It sucks. Next time will you speak up right away?

On the other hand, not quite a freeroll as mentioned. When I see regs softplaying and calling hoping to check it down, I know they are putting their money in light. It's a chance for a bonus payday.

These 2 are just naive/stupid enough to say it outloud in the middle of the action at the table. Still wrong if they agree, but don't confirm mid hand.

Not angleshooting.

They were colluding and I have no problem with your decision to fade the cheat. I'm guessing they were just inexperienced and the floorman was giving them the benefit of the doubt...told them they couldn't do that and the consequences.
All in all, it sounds like what could have gotten ugly, worked out.

I think there are two likely scenarios here.

One is that these two are a true colluding team, experienced players out to collude to maximize their joint profits. But given that one of them admitted out loud what they were doing, this scenario is unlikely.

More likely is the other case where they are just rec players playing for fun. Maybe one of them is somewhat experienced and the other a clueless beginner. The experienced guy probably had to convince his friend to play by telling him he would rebate some of his losses. I suspect that at least the friend had no idea what collusion was, or else he never would have said what he did out load.

So the floor tells them to knock that stuff off as a warning. But the truth is you never know if two friends have any sort of shared bankroll arrangement. Those who do usually dont announce it.

But as far as ethics, and protecting the integrity of the game, you either call the floor at the time of the incident, or you really arent as concerned with the integrity of the game as you are the money. If you had total air in your hand, would you still have waited until after the hand to call the floor?

great response. totally agree and makes perfect sense. and to answer your question no. I only waited because I could let their collusion play to my advantage

I never really buy this argument. The reason is I find it hard to believe that a person with even a basic understanding of the game can;t see why this is problematic. The sort of clueless people who don't are not likely to be asking another player to kick back part of their losses. I think if a player sees why he would want such a rebate as enticement to call must have the capability to understand why that negatively impacts other players.


I am willing to believe there are some people who don't know this ... but only because they choose to be willfully ignorant .... not becaus etheya re inexperienced but simply because despite their experience they refuse to think.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but why doesn't/didn't the dealer call the floor?

Perhaps. But to me the biggest indicator of someone not believing it's wrong is the verbal admission. If you know you are deliberately cheating a game, who just forgets that you're suppoaaed to keep your cheating a secret and blurts it out like that? That's what makes me think the guy really didnt understand it was wrong. No one goes into a store to shoplift and says to his friend "now we're not paying for the stuff in our pockets, right?" In front of the cashier

I had something kind of similar happen to me in a 20/40 LHE game at FW many years ago.

Without getting bogged down in details, I was in a hand with a husband and wife. The wife made a bet which I raised. The husband called 2 bets and was furious with his wife. Who then said out loud something like "If I had known you were in the hand I would never have bet".

She was terrible. He was probably OK but the consensus from regulars in the game was don't rock the boat. Yes they soft play each other and collude (poorly) to some extent but they are extremely good for the game in general. It would have been a very different situation if they had been consistent winners.

My 2 cents is that what happened to you was wrong, but once you accepted the action, you can't then get too worked up about it. Perhaps the Floor realized that you had taken advantage of the situation (like a string bet) and because of that only issued a warning.

Well from experience he may feel it's ok because nobody ever does anything about it.

But my point isn't that he is consciously thinking that it's illegal. It's that he has enough understanding of the game that he would understand it's illegal if he bothered to think about it. Choosing not to think about it is no excuse.

It's not uncommon to get a guy who talks about hands all the time...to start complaint about people talking about hands when hr is the one being harmed.

OK, I see your point now. I agree that many just dont bother to think about the ramification on the game. Sort of like all the otherwise experienced players who just never bother to think why folding way early out of turn to go to the restroom affects the game.

This happened to my wife and I once playing LHE at the same table. We announced we were a couple to the table to keep all out in the open. In one hand, on the river, she bet, someone called, I raised, she raised. He screamed that we were cheating. Floor comes over and told the guy we were regs and played square. She had the nut flush and I the second nut flush. Guy was pissy but let it go after he saw the hands.

The sweetest money I have ever won at the table is the money I win from her, and vice versa.

People can be really funny about Husband/wives at the table. My wife barely knows poker, but once every few months we'll go to a room that has a very good high hand promo where she chases the HH while I play 2/5nl.

They play a 2/2 limit game that practically only runs during the HH promo. The average age is probably 70, and the minute the promo stops all 2/2 limit games break. All they do is chase the HH.

So it's almost promo end time, and I leave my game and sit at the table where my wife is for the last 15 minutes of the promo. I sit at the other end of the table, and announce that the crazy thai lady over there is my wife. Couple of minutes later the seat next to my wife opens, and she says come sit next to me. An 80+ lady then says "you shouldnt do that". I asked why, and she said " you might give each other signals playing footsie under the table". For an instant I thought she was joking, but realized she was dead serious.

I didnt move, but got a good laugh out of it.