The dealer obviously hesitated and probably feels like they got away with something. I do beleive it's up to the dealer to say something and puts OP in a tough spot if they should say something.

A clear conscience is more valuable than wealth.

I was prepared to defend you but that's just dumb right there.

If you're giving a tip back as some sort of protest then you deserve to be written up. A good bit of the job of the dealer is to bite your lip and deal with *******s.

With a new player to the room tossing a $25 I wouldn't expect the dealer to just assume he'd want it broken down - specially if the player had smaller chips in front of him - but I would in a small pot expect the dealer to say something like "You realize this is a green chip right?"

IANAL but all this theft vs not theft talk lead me to google and what I suspect is most applicable is this:
Unjust enrichment is the principle used if a bank or employer overpays you .

In your drive-through scenario the thing to do is ask the manager to check the drawer and you will get your money back.

The ppl claiming theft itt are talking philosophy, not law.

Where I play, a dealer has to confirm with the floor every time he drops a green chip or higher into his toke box. The floor makes a note of it, and then presumably when the dealer goes to cash out for the night, any unaccounted for green chip will draw suspicion.

If I were 99% certain the dealer had not done this, I would wait until that dealer had finished their down, and casually mention what I thought I saw to the floor to see what the floor would do about it. If the green chip in the dealer's box was in fact never confirmed with the floor, I would hope the floor would make the dealer give it back and the dealer would get in trouble. But if the dealer did check with the floor about it, obviously I was in the wrong and dealer gets to keep it.

You are discussing it that way. Everyone disagreeing with you knows it was ambiguous.

All though I think it is crazy to tip in that spot. I was just saying that to show how crazy it is that a dealer should be questioning odd tipping and not just saying thank you and moving on.

If Timmy is saying a dealer should question an over sized tip then they should also question a tip in a spot like that according to his argument.

There are subtle ways you can question an odd tip. The dealer could very easily have said, "Wow! That's a very generous tip. Thank you very much!" before dropping it. If the tip is correct, the player will say nothing. If the tip was a mistake, the player will most likely speak up at that point and correct it to the intended $2 tip. Although I guess there's some chance the player won't saying out of embarrassment at asking for his mistaken tip back. But if that's the case, dealer is in the clear.

It was compared to taking a chip from another players stack. Even philosophically that comparison fails.

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I nearly always tip a dealer even if it's a 1/2 game and I just take the blinds. Often with a comment like - there goes 1/3 of my profit. One time I raise and took it like 4 hands in a row tipping the dealer (I particularly like this guy) $1 every time. He said "I should just start pushing you the blinds" and I said "$1 for you $2 for me. We're both happy"

You can argue that this tipping is over generous and dumb - it is from a pure profit perspective - but it's not near theft. And the dealer shouldn't question it.

Now if I'm pulling a $6 pot and shoot the dealer a $5 chip they would surely question it. Some just with a raised eyebrow. Sometimes it's actually what I intended.

Even the OP questioned the intent.

Dealer should have mentioned/motioned for the player to look at the toke.....and waited for that response..... before dropping into the box.

If as posted, we have a new dealer, I think I would have piped up with something like "Wow Jimmy, that's a great tip"

That's not even necessary. In a 1/2 game they have plenty of change.

Not saying this at all. Saying the dealer should question a tip that is clearly a mistake. In this case the dealer knows if it is or isn't a mistake 100% of the time.

I can get behind this definition. I mean I don't see how theft applies but this comes close. With "unjust enrichment" the prosecutor would need to establish that the defendant, the dealer in this case, had no doubt that the tipper meant to give him $2. In this case it is literally impossible to prove though.

It's really not if you're not using legal standards though. If this guy had been there 4 hours tipping $1-$2 that's clearly proof right there, thought it wouldn't clear the legal bar obvious.

And if this $20 was found on the floor of a Las Vegas casino, you would be committing a crime under Nevada Law by keeping it and not turning it in to security.

The legal definition of "theft of lost property" in Nevada is when a person knowingly and without lawful authority "comes into control of lost, mislaid or mis-delivered property of another person...and appropriates that property to his or her own use or that of another person without reasonable efforts to notify the true owner."

In short, people who find property they know is lost may not keep the property unless they make "reasonable efforts" to reunite the property with the owner.

I have found cash and casino chips of varying value in casinos many times and pocketed them with no consequence. If somehow security came at me I am not getting arrested and the absolute worst they say to give it to them and if I refuse they ban me.

On the flip side of this. 2 times I have spotted a wallet on the ground and immediately notified a supervisor about it. I would not touch that as that would be theft and would likely get arrested.

My point was that it avoids the situation of not accepting a tip. If it comes to management freaking out about not accepting a tip, you have a legit defense "Oh, I thought he wanted change" and it lets the player try again. He throws it back if it wasn't a mistake, or he maybe tips you more than he thought he was tipping you for your honesty, or maybe he doesn't tip at all. I still think it's the best course.

Your moral compass is based on consequences. That's fine. You keep on thinking we're all suckers, and we'll keep on thinking what we think. We just have a different idea about the world. It's okay.

I don't think that's true at all. I think the standard is more along the lines of "was the tip out of the ordinary" for the stakes and the size of the pot which clearly it is.

Say you help out an elderly neighbor by shoveling their walk and the kindly old lady wants to pay you for your efforts and hands you a couple $100 bills for work that someone would normally ask for $20. If you quickly pocket the benjamins that's unjust enrichment. You're taking advantage of an old lady's poor eyesight or confusion. It's not that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that her intention was to give you a couple tens instead. You know that the payment is out of whack with the work done.

I don't live in Timmay's black and white world where we know with 100% certainty that the tip was accidental but you'd have to be lying if you'd say that a $26 tip in a $30 pot wasn't considerably more than you'd expect and therefor should be verified with the tipper.

And I would probably find myself in contempt of the court if that was their ruling.

No. If you read the thread, the argument was being made in the context of a clear mistake and people were disagreeing with that.

That's simply not true. But you go ahead and keep doing what you're doing until such time as you find yourself under arrest for theft, as this man did when he found a $200 slot ticket on the floor of a Harrah's casino in PA.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...267074191.html

A slot ticket is a different game. The rightful owner can be tracked and that is theft and can be charged.

In addition over $100 and $10 or $20 are different.

I forget the term used for people who walk around casinos looking for money in play on slot machines and cashing them out. I saw security approach a guy who was doing that but hanging at the V sports book.

They just asked him some questions and had proof that he was doing just that and he didn't even get arrested. He was only trespassed.