$26 tip- should I have said something? - Page 2 - Poker Card Room

You mean he draws the line at "maybe not use words that don't apply"?

Look I'm not saying this is morally bad but just find a word that describes the situation. I'd go for "scummy".

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06-17-2017 , 11:18 AM

#27

TimmayB

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvis

Situation A: dealer distracts everyone and grabs a $25 chip from the player's stack

Situation B: dealer receives a $25 that he realizes is a mistake. He keeps his mouth shut

Situation A is theft, B is not. I get the point you're making but if we go along that route then I am going to call this "car" because the meaning of a word no longer has anything to do with what it describes. This is simply not theft. The thing with tipping is that the customer decides the amount so anything he gives him just isn't theft by definition. You're trying to put some morals into a word that isn't about morals.

Lol just no. Situation B is still absolutely theft if the dealer realizes and there is no doubt the $25 chip is supposed to be $1. If you're walking behind someone who drops a $20 bill you can take it and it will not be theft because you realize them dropping it was a mistake? Or is it only theft if you actually take it out of her purse without her knowing? That is essentially the argument you are making here. Theft via ignorance/honest (or not honest in the dealer's case here) mistake is still theft.

Last edited by TimmayB; 06-17-2017 at 11:25 AM.

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06-17-2017 , 11:22 AM

#28

albedoa

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Kelvis, there is a litany of precedence saying that knowingly keeping something that was delivered to you in error is theft. TimmayB isn't getting wacky with words — he's using the literal definition. You're the one trying to change what it means.

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06-17-2017 , 11:22 AM

#29

iraisetoomuch

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,486

"That's very generous sir, thank you."
End of problem.

Follow up for the "dealers responsibility" crowd:
If the dealer should question this because he thinks it might be wrong, should the deales question when a player gives much less than normal because that might be wrong?

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06-17-2017 , 11:23 AM

#30

albedoa

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Kelvis ffs stop talking about words and definitions you don't understand ITT. You're embarrassing yourself and creating unnecessary noise.

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06-17-2017 , 11:24 AM

#31

parisron

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Timmay is the type to find a $20 bill on the ground and turn it into security. lol

Where the rightful owner would never even be able to get it.

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06-17-2017 , 11:26 AM

#32

Kelvis

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Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmayB

You're not reading.

Did someone who dropped a $20 bill give it to you? No. He is still the owner, it is theft to pick it up and run. His mistake by dropping money is not the same as giving a wrong amount to someone. Taking something from someones purse is also clearly theft. Accepting something from someone who gives you something isn't theft.

Accepting something from ignorant people or those who make mistakes isn't theft. Isn't that obvious?

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06-17-2017 , 11:27 AM

#33

albedoa

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Quote:

Originally Posted by parisron

Timmay is the type to find a $20 bill on the ground and turn it into security. lol

Where the rightful owner would never even be able to get it.

wtf does that have to do with anything? You're the one on record as saying a law is not being broken if there's no chance of being caught. You should probably duck out.

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06-17-2017 , 11:27 AM

#34

Kelvis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

Kelvis ffs stop talking about words and definitions you don't understand ITT. You're embarrassing yourself and creating unnecessary noise.

I wasn't the one who insisted it is theft in the first place.

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06-17-2017 , 11:28 AM

#35

Alpha Fish

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Yeah gl explaining it to judge if the bank teller accidentally overpays you and you decide to keep it

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06-17-2017 , 11:29 AM

#36

TimmayB

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch

Follow up for the "dealers responsibility" crowd:
If the dealer should question this because he thinks it might be wrong, should the deales question when a player gives much less than normal because that might be wrong?

No. The dealer is obligated to say something in the clear overtip mistake case because part of his job is protecting his players/overall integrity of the game.

Fwiw and somewhat off-topic and very nitty of me though it's been brought up itt: dealers who use multiple "thank you"s for each dollar they're tipped really grinds my gears. All tips should be met with one thank you and a dealer should not, while working, imply they appreciate one person's tip anymore than the others, regardless of amount.

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06-17-2017 , 11:30 AM

#37

parisron

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Quote:

Originally Posted by albedoa

wtf does that have to do with anything? You're the one on record as saying a law is not being broken if there's no chance of being caught. You should probably duck out.

I never said a law is not broken if there is no chance of being caught. I said if there is no chance of being convicted. In other words there is no conviction because its not a crime.

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06-17-2017 , 11:31 AM

#38

Kelvis

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha Fish

Yeah gl explaining it to judge if the bank teller accidentally overpays you and you decide to keep it

Not the same. There was an agreement over an amount and you need to hold to your side of the deal. In the case of tipping the customer is basically free to give any amount he wants so there is no such thing as "overpaying". The dealer did not request the amount to be $26 nor did he acknowledge the tip was less.

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06-17-2017 , 11:31 AM

#39

TimmayB

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Quote:

Originally Posted by parisron

Timmay is the type to find a $20 bill on the ground and turn it into security. lol

This isn't exactly the sick burn that you think it is and not true in all situations regardless.

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06-17-2017 , 11:33 AM

#40

parisron

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I like how you keep quoting only part of my posts. So it can look better for you.

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06-17-2017 , 11:35 AM

#41

TimmayB

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvis

Not the same. There was an agreement over an amount and you need to hold to your side of the deal.

There is an implicit agreement with a tipping customer when it's crystal clear a mistake is being made. Trying yet again: if you ask someone to borrow $10 and they unknowingly give you $100 and think it's a $10 are you not guilty of stealing $90 if you keep it?

Just cuz the agreement isn't written doesn't mean it's not there.

Like I said, if there's any ambiguity at all like the guy has been throwing the dealer redbirds or something I'm not saying anything. If it's a clear mistake you're absolutely obligated to say something imo.

Last edited by TimmayB; 06-17-2017 at 11:43 AM.

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06-17-2017 , 11:37 AM

#42

Alpha Fish

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvis

they are both theft by a legal definition. hope you realize that

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06-17-2017 , 11:40 AM

#43

TimmayB

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvis

In the case of tipping the customer is basically free to give any amount he wants so there is no such thing as "overpaying".

So your argument is this:

Food order is $44. Dude pays you with $100 and says "keep the $6" obviously thinking he gave you $50. You're obligated to say something in this case but not if he just hands you the $100 and says "just keep it"? Seems really not good from all standpoints.

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06-17-2017 , 11:43 AM

#44

parisron

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Exactly. Keep the $6 and its a $100 bill then you say something 100%.
Keep it and $100 bill. Thanks!

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06-17-2017 , 11:44 AM

#45

TimmayB

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Even if you're 100% sure the $100 is supposed to be a $50?

Gross. And theft.

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06-17-2017 , 11:44 AM

#46

Aurora Tom

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Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,167

I believe this is very unethical by the dealer. It's clear the player meant to throw 2 whites, not a white and a green. If it's me in the box, I'm waiting until the player actually sees what he threw me and give him a chance to fix his own mistake. "Hey Joe {with a finger on each chip to show him} - thank you but......?" But that's just me. Everyone is different.

However, being scummy and unethical does not turn this into theft IMO.

OTOH, once it's in the toke box, too late!

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06-17-2017 , 11:45 AM

#47

iraisetoomuch

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Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,486

Silly people have silly viewpoints itt.

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06-17-2017 , 11:46 AM

#48

parisron

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmayB

Even if you're 100% sure the $100 is supposed to be a $50?

Gross. And theft.

How are you 100% sure? LMAO
You have no idea what he wants to tip you. He hands you a bill and says keep it. This guy might have just hit the lottery. He might be very generous. He might be about to die.

It is not your job to figure these things out.

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06-17-2017 , 11:46 AM

#49

Kelvis

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Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 8,737

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha Fish

they are both theft by a legal definition. hope you realize that

Show me and I happily accept the definition. So far I am the only one that quoted any part of the definition (the consent part) and everyone else has been throwing "well im right"

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmayB

So your argument is this:

Food order is $44. Dude pays you with $100 and says "keep the $6" obviously thinking he gave you $50. You're obligated to say something in this case but not if he just hands you the $100 and says "just keep it"? Seems really not good from all standpoints.

If he gives you $100 and says "keep it" then I would not call it theft.

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06-17-2017 , 11:46 AM

#50

TimmayB

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How is taking money from a person that is clearly not meant for you theft regardless how you slice it? This is blowing my mind, especially seeing anyone with dealing experience who isn't a horrible dealer with this take.

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