i feel jumping into a 300-500max 1/2 NL game during weekdays, especially tue & wed nites... helps to deal with the lack of good bigger games during those times.

all in all - it's table selection.

This seems like the best idea now days with the player pool so small. If you are a 2-5 grinder, why would you not play the 1-2/1-3 $300-500 cap games during "grinder hours"(what I call reg infested tables during weekdays). I'm sure the winrate at these 1-2/1-3 tables will be higher than at a reg infested 2-5 game. I'm sure the brightest of the bunch have already adapted and began to do this, but the ones who haven't need to really consider it. I lived in AC for most of 2007 and played strictly 2-5 @ ~$30/hr averaging 45hrs/wk, but back then every room had at least 1 2-5 game running and the bigger rooms(Borg, Taj) had 5+ every night just about. Table selection was simple but today you do not have that luxury.

To answer OP's question, yes it is possible but not as likely as it was just a few years ago. Back a few years ago I would say the solid regs were in the 5-8bb/hr range and the top earners were somewhere around 10-15bb/hr. Now I would say the 5-8bb/hr are the top earners and the 10-15bb/hr 2-5 grinders are very rare. This is all just speculation though by reading numerous threads on the subject over the last year, it could be just as easy as it was when I played for a living. I couldn't possibly see how it would be though.

^ lol @ assuming the cap is meaningful if people not buying in for the max (which most at 1/2 & 1/3 aren't).

yes weekdays are tighter games but there are not that many "pros". it is rare for me to have more than 2 other pros at my table(5/10NLH is a different story)

yes mid week there are a lot of weak tight regs who give up a lot of money if you know how to exploit them

and i do agree having a job and grinding part time poker on the weekends is the best solution for 99% of poker players

5K/mo is doable at 2/5NLH if you 1) are a very good poker player 2) put in enough hours

5k per month is very doable. You will have to put in the time (Friday-Sunday) or bounce around to really improve your win rate. You might also need to take a few trips and follow the wsop circuit around or hit up casinos when other tourneys are in town. One of the main reseason the "pro's" set up the wsop was to attract the fish to the games. Live grinders in some instances would make a whole years worth of earnings during that time frame.

The idea that "most" players at any venue at any time playing 2/5 NL are pros is completely ridiculous. Contrary to the absurd fallacy that this site promotes, there is not some insanely high amount of successful, adult, sole-means-of-living 1/2 and 2/5 NL live professionals.

$40-50 an hour for the top player

As I, and others have said before, a large majority of the player pool of 2/5 in many locals are players who are at a skill level of 1/2 live and lower be it regs or not, who don't want to play for peanuts when they go out to gambooool. Hence, another large portion of 2/5 players not buying in full. You gotta be pretty silly to not understand this IMO.

I don't understand, who is this to? It's got nothing to do with what I said. Or were you agreeing with me? I said that a very small percentage of people playing 2/5 NL are pros, after someone said the opposite.

Was just using it as an agreement quote. Probably didnt
Use the best starting statement to clarify that

Got ya! Thanks

I think a top 1%er in las vegas can make $55/hour longterm at 2/5nl, $35/hour at 1/3 nl, and $60/hour at 1-2/1-3 plo. I like to think that I fall in the 1% category and am looking foreword to seeing where my hourly rests after a proper sample size. The following are my stats playing live in vegas:

[IMG][/IMG]

Nice chart fullyfocused

10bb/hr is attainable in any reasonably raked/dropped game. But lots of factors go into play.

#1 your skill
#2 your opponents skill and stack sizes
#3 blinds
#4 drop/rake
#5 time of play - which factors in #1 and #2
#6 your mental game - which factors into #5
#7 style of play based on all of the above.


So heres a story....

Online Im beating pretty handily $50 NL FR. The regs are fairly competent. Ive been playing online for 8 years and used to play live in Florida some 5 years ago. We moved to NC with no poker. So I was out of touch with live poker for a bit... keep this in mind. I moved to San Francisco. The live structure and players changed from east to west coast and so did the vig of the games in the last few years.

I started playing live again.

My local CA casino is loaded with horrifically bad players. I have seen 1 competent one in the last year. I play the 1/1/2 game $4 bring in @ Lucky Chances in Colma CA (San Fran bay area).... when I 1st moved here I was getting my ass handed to me in that game. It blew my mind and I couldnt figure out why. These players were far below my skill level how am I having one losing session after another. My "game-dar", which is game radar to how much I should be up or down was off. So I had to stop play and really take in the structure, style, and players.

After taking a couple months off I realised what had to be adjusted.

#1 your skill - not the issue, it just had to be readjusted preflop
#2 your opponents skill and stack sizes - from loose passive fish to loose donks who can fold to c-bets. Florida they had larger stacks relative to the blinds, California smaller.
#3 blinds - 1/2 $2 limp to 1/1/2 $4 limp
#4 drop/rake - 10% $3 max NFND to straight $6 drop NF$2 drop
#5 time of play - irrelevent
#6 your mental game - my research
#7 style of play - limpy see a flop and get paid to tighten up, iso-raise with position, and play for big pots.

In Florida I could like hands like 76s Axs UTG and never get raised behind and get paid post flop just like in NL Theory and Practice.

In California I have to play a completely different game which is tighter and more aggressive for larger pots to compensate for the high drop and take advantage that the players dont want to play for big pots without TP.

Ever since the change I havent had a losing session. Now Im not saying I went to losing to 10bb/100 but the swing was dramatic.

Is 10bb/100 attainable in my game? I say no. The players buy in too short. If they had full stacks of 100bbs or more, yea probably so given 6-12m and keeping a good log of who's who.

If I remember correctly in Harrington's cash game book there was a paragraph about "when you attain 10bb/100 @ a game, you should look to move up".

So look at it this way. If you could see all your opponent's hands face up how much could you beat the game for? Try to get as close to that level of reading as possible to gain maximum profits.

I feel my 1/1/2 $4 limp game plays like 2/4 NL with low blinds. So my strategy is right.

Why is table hours a little less than real hours?

Nice chart [and win-rate] btw.

Thanks Bradley
I have no idea what the cause is for the discrepancy in the two figures. Ive wondered that myself. I know for online poker where you multi-table the numbers would be different but this is live play.

2+2 loves graphs so here are the stats in a graph

[IMG][/IMG]

This is the last year of play
(note there is a large block of inactivity) Also this does not include comps, raffles, splash pots, drawings, staking, 95% of freerolls, and other added equity from paying.

Thanks WInk

Good post bro. A lot of what your saying is dead on. Being conscience of everything & adapting accordingly is crucial. I often use the terms micro calibration or fine tuning when referring to a plan of attack vs individual villains. This is what leads you to trim the fat & crush on a whole new level for you are calculating how to stack each villain. This can only come after you have exhausted table, seat, & location selection as well as overall game plan and execution of course.

Nice start. How/what is 0+10NL etc at the top of your giraffe in Vegas?

freerolls. Most all of which i didn't track. THe +5 or +10 is with dealer appreciation addon.

For whatever reason, I didn't notice the word Multi in front of them before now. Hence my ? lol. Post new giraffe @ 500hrs @ 2/5.

The 2/5nl hours I book will be coming in slowly. I think I will be playing 1/3 & 2/5 plo at Aria primarily for the foreseeable future. I believe my hourly is highest going that route. I also enjoy playing plo much more. More cards more fun ! I also will be playing in a few wsop events this year. If I bink something at the series or if I otherwise have an excellent next few months I will be moving to 5/10 when I play NL.

How do you come to this conclusion?

Not a dig, but I've been looking at $/hr threads like this one for a while now and am at a loss for why people will post numbers like this w/o giving their reasoning why.

fullyfocused did you make that graph or is it some kind of tracking program?

I use a free website called *************.com

You can filter your results for all kinds of graphs and charts. If anyone ends up making an account add me as a friend and we can see each others up to date results. My account name is goodkarma101

hey focused - nice girraffe...based on convo i assume yer a reg at aria. I dont really play there - i reg it up at the venetian. We have similar w/r at 2/5 if you want to grab a bite and talk pokerz hit me up.