I’m not suggesting anyone tip each hand you play but don’t win. I understand why dealers get snippy when they push a pot to someone and get nothing in return. This would also be the same for a waitress that had 9 diff tables and one of them stiffed her.

Ive worked and been around tipping positions for the last 30+ years. IMO the number of non tipping restaurant/bar patrons is much less than then non tipping gamblers who sit at a poker/BJ table.

To further stir the pot on this a bit ..

Although a bit different when you typically know that you will have the same server for your whole meal, you don't know that you will have the same person bringing drinks around in a casino/bar.

BUT .. in a restaurant you don't tip until your meal/time at the table is over .. and yet the current expectation is to tip 'every' hand. One could certainly suggest that each hand is a 'meal' but you could also suggest that you should wait to tip until your time with that Dealer is over, eh?

Granted you 'do' have to pay for your meal, whereas you could bust at a poker table and not have anything left to tip with. GL

in general i agree with you. some players are just stiffs. but some dealers are really just awful dealers who get stiffed bc they're bad. they tend to never actually look in the mirror and realize why in a down they might get stiffed by multiple people and have it happen multiple times per night.

Seems you changed your argument. Originally it was the player who never won a hand that did not tip. Now you are talking about the winner not tipping. In the first your were worried about who was tipping and now you are worried about no one tipping.

Big differences. Don’t worry about who lost and did not tip. Focus on understanding why a winner did not tip. Sure some are just cheap but often the non tip is a message.

Btw acting entitled and acting up when you don’t get tipped will backfire with me. If I forgot to tip you, now I will make it a point to not tip you AND make sure you know why. If someone else did not tip you, now I am likely to join them based on your (mis)behavior. Not saying you do that but if you did that is how I will react. OTOH if I notice you were not tipped, and you handle it professionally, good chance I may tip to make it up.

There was a guy who used to play in Florida a lot called Angry Bob. He never tipped and as his name would suggest, I never saw him happy. Pretty much everyone in the room hated Angry Bob and he managed to get himself prema banned from 5 poker rooms that I know of. No Floor would cut him any slack bc he was such a PITA to players, dealers, and floors. I hadn't seen him in 5+ years.

I went to my main room a couple of weeks ago and there was Angry Bob, as angry as ever. He's still not tipping, but at least he was not insulting dealers as had been his MO. The floor who always finds a reason to harass me (all in fun) came by with his usual trash talk. I took the floor aside and warned him of Bob's reputation and ban history.

No my point has been the same. Dealing and waitressing are different. A waitress is guaranteed to put something in front of you, whether its food or drink. A dealer may never push a pot your way. I’m looking at it as a waitress with 9 tables and a dealer with 9 players. Odds are that the waitress is getting tipped on every check. There’s a good chance a dealer is going to have players that don’t win and never tip. If the losing players aren’t tipping and the winning players aren’t tipping, I understand why a dealer gets snippy. Just like I’d understand if a waitress got snippy because she provided food and drink to a table for an hour and they stiffed her.

And no I’ve never a dealer

Until people work in a tipped position, I don’t think they see both sides. Having other people control how much money you make every night is frustrating as hell. Burnout is real. It’s why restaurants are having a hard time finding staff and why casinos are having a hard time finding and keeping dealers. I’ve been amazed at how high the turnover rate is for a job ( dealer) that pays pretty good and doesn’t take years of training to learn. People now seem to want the job that guarantees how much money they make.

I can't work up any sympathy for that. It's not as if it is a surprise to the tipped workers that that is exactly what they are signing up for.

An actor has to perform for his pay. He has to come out on stage night after night, doing the same song and dance and be spectacular. If he finds it frustrating as hell that he has to put his real life on hold for a few hours and do a great job, lest the people boo and he'll lose his job, he doesn't really understand the job.

Great dealers and wait staff are performance artists.

You could have the friendliest waitress in the world. Are you going to tip her if she doesn’t put food or drink in front of you?

On occasion I’ve tipped a dealer who had an exemplary down, even though I never won a hand during it.

Hasn’t happened too often but I am happy to do it when it happens.

Yes that does happen occasionally but we all know thats a rare occurrence. We can say the dealer is tipped based on the service they provide but it’s moreso based on the service they provide and the player getting the pots pushed to them.

Turnover rate is high not necessarily because of compensation but because it is a “dead-end” job. The pay is actually pretty nice for servers and dealers given, to be honest, how easy what they do is. However, it’s very hard to make being a dealer a “career”. Many of the people who have done it for a decade+ don’t really have any other job they can do.

Not saying that’s the case for all, but it is true for many. Ymmv

In every "real job" I've ever had, other people controlled how much money I made. How many people get to write a blank check?

As a professional poker player, I kind of control how much money I make as I can choose my game and the plays I make, but it is also foiled by other people, varies every night, and many nights I even lose money. That doesn't happen as a dealer.

Non tipped positions know their hourly rate before they punch in for work every day.

You ever get angry about a bad beat? If that’s your job have you been as courteous as ever to players and dealers? You’ve never once mumbled something under your breath? If you did it’s fine. Things happen. Just like sometimes a dealer loses his cool when his income is affected. I won’t hold it against a dealer if they get snippy once in a while. I’m not looking to “ teach him a lesson “ or “make a point” like some players like to do.

Yes, non-tipped, non-gambling non-entrepreneurial positions do know how much they will get paid in advance. But other people still control how much money they make.

I've certainly gotten frustrated about bad beats. A few times I have even gotten upset after a major run-bad, but never angry. I definitely have said things that weren't good for the game. I have gotten upset or even angry with a dealer before, but only for major mistakes that were completely under his control. I've certainly never been upset at a dealer because of the random card he took off the top of a deck.

Actually it's extremely rare that I've seen a dealer get upset about anything he shouldn't have. Really I can only remember maybe three times when I have heard a dealer mention anything about not being tipped. And I don't ever remember any "getting snippy" about it. Maybe I'm just not paying attention or not a good judge of that. I do notice when a dealer isn't up to his usual level of skill / professionality, but maybe I didn't realize why it happened.

If you gave dealers a choice between full minimum wage, or tipped minimum wage plus tips, which would they take?

Yup. In badaci during a mixed TD game, a weak dealer pushed the whole pot to the best badugi and didn't notice that the other player had a better low. Then the dealer didn't know how many bets was in the pot and needed help. After it split, the low tipped $5 and the dealer kept his eye on the badugi looking for a tip since there was good multi-way action during the first two draws. Totally clueless.

Angry Bob sounds like a nice guy to me. Not sure why you'd drop the dime on him to the floor.

Then they shouldn't be dealers. What's a particular dealer's hourly? Total income for the year / total hours for the year. If a dealer is tracking this each year, then he or she shouldn't let any one big pot without a tip, or a down with a bunch of stiffs, affect them. Yet another reason why tipping should be done away with.

Odds are that the dealer is getting tipped every pot he serves just like a waiter gets ONE tip for each table served, not every patron served

Dealing and waiting are not very different. Both serve patrons, nei5her get to pick who will tip them or how much,both will sometimes get stiffed.

We can agree to disagree. I’m obviously not gonna change anyone’s mind.

First of all, the whole concept of tipping when you win is ridiculous. Do you only tip a server based on the quality of the food, or do you tip based his or her service and attentiveness to your needs? If you don't tip a great dealer just because he or she didn't push you a pot, you're tipping for the wrong reasons.

Tipping when you win is simply the table's way of ensuring the dealer has a chance to be tipped every hand, without everyone having to put in 1/9th of a tip

Dealer preference .. IMO ..

1) Fed wage with current tipping behavior .. Dealers get taxed on (the assumption they make) $18-22 per hour on average but really only make 'minimum' wage plus 'tax-free' tips

2) Decent hourly and get taxed on all tips

3) Min wage plus $1 hand guarantee

4) 'Bad' hourly and fill out a tip form each week

5) Work as a (possible 1099) contractor and 'take home' all their tips and deal with tax man later

6) Decent hourly and have pooled tips

I'm sure there's a scenario or two I've left out .. Like the splashy Home Game where you can make 1 week's pay in one session.

Obv wages and tips are handled differently based on the venue .. casino, card room, charity room, back room, home game .. So how those are handled by management will vary by default. GL

I understand the modern convention of why it is reasoned to be done this way, but it is not the table's way of ensuring the dealer has a chance to be tipped on every hand; it is the casino and dealers' way of ensuring it.

If this is true, then I know some dealers that are really killing it and no wonder they're against a set hourly.

Ask a dealer what they would rather have

25 dollars an hour guaranteed

Or tip min wage + tips

Most would probably say the latter.