It appears that perception has lead to misinterpretation here. By an ordinary $1 tip, I meant by ordinary 'zombie' tipping standards. I did not mention anything about deserving or not at that time (it wasn't until later that I felt he was deserving).

Here's an example where one of my personal tipping standards is deemed "silly". This might be the greatest factor in the evolution of my personal tipping standards: I am being judged and I do not feel that being judged should be rewarded with a tip. I feel judgmental vibes when I read and post ITT and at the poker tables. One of the most common claimed reasons to tip is based on dealer quality which is subject to judgment. Some dealers encourage this judgment: ie 'I'm good so tip me good, they're bad so tip them bad'. But when a dealer judges a player they are burning a bridge. I've hinted at this repeatedly ITT but it doesn't seem to sink in (seems like some can't get past the perception that I am a dealer hater and that just maybe I could be trying to provide helpful feedback).

So this weekend I played with the specific dealer I mentioned ITT a few days back. He dealt two downs at my table. He pushed me three puts during this session. The first was a decent pot which I tipped $5 since he impressed me and I felt he deserved it (if I wasn't making an exception, I would have tipped $1 by my own ordinary standards) and the next two I tipped $1 each (though probably would have given $1 and $0 by my ordinary standards). I noticed that he said "thank you" upon each tip he received and moved directly on to the next hand after pushing pots that did not yield a tip. He also said "thanks for playing" after the few players left, including myself towards the end of his 2nd down with me when I racked up. This is my kind of dealer, one who is professional and nonjudgmental.

I've never been one to get into these poker tipping compared to other areas of tipping because as I've always viewed it as apples / oranges. And perhaps answering these questions might leave myself open to further judgment, but I'll elaborate on other tipping aspects in good faith that maybe these questions are being asked in a way to better understand people like me and better understanding might lead to less judgment.


If bad tipping is gauged by comparison to average, then yes to 1st question, though not as bad (percentage wise probably up to 75% less compared to 25% less). Tough I feel the consensus belief of bad tipping is flawed in it's logic. If one does tip, how can it be bad? Bad because you wanted more? So why did I tip in the first place? ...Make sense why somebody might settle in at a below average tipping level?

Answers to q2&3 = independent of poker sessions.


Ultimately, I play poker to make extra money. I sort of treat it as a little side business. A winning or losing session can depend on variance which is beyond my control, but the expense of tipping is within my control and efforts will be taken to minimize this. Most players have a different outlook on why they play - for recreation and/or social interaction. They tip as part of the cost of their pastime. There's way more of them to make up for the difference of those like me so it's a shame to have dealers sweat a low tipper just for naturally existing in their poker environment.

Away from poker rooms my purpose of making money is gone. However, principles I've learned from playing poker, discipline / br management, do carry over into other aspects of life. Before I got into poker I was an above average tipper at restaurants etc. Looking back I realize my past tipping ways were frivolous and naive. When I do eat out, if I'm with my girlfriend or friends, I'm a 15% tipper. If I'm alone and all I do is order one entree and a drink, right away I'll ask for the one drink refill I'll need and the check so the waitress doesn't need to spend any unnecessary time on me (in fact in instances when I'm alone her 'service' can become a hindrance), I'll tip usually $1, occasionally $2. Besides that, I am self sufficient anyway. I enjoy cooking and it's so much easier to eat healthy at home than in restaurants, so I don't want the 'service' a restaurant and waitress provides. Other areas like valets, my self sufficiency leads me to believe that it's foolish to utilize and pay somebody for a 'service' that I am entirely capable of and prefer to do myself.

And if it helps any, as if I just didn't understand how it is for those who work in tipping professions. My girlfriend is a cocktail waitress and former blackjack dealer. She is grateful for the tips she receives, understands tip variance, and does not feel the need to overtip just because she herself works for tips. She's aware of the way I tip and admires my sense while she's also aware that her bigger tips come from those lacking sense. Kind of reminds me of this reference... She does this when somebody overtips her as if it will increase their chances of sleeping with her.

So you think your girlfriend doesn't think people are cheap when they under-tip or don't tip her at all? She just smiles and thanks goodness that they aren't trying to sleep with her?

News for you that I'm sure you're actually aware of, but there's a voice in her head, whether she admits it or not, that's judging them for "being cheap". This is true whether she feels it from her rational side or from social conditioning.

Her saying that she admires your 15% rule is strictly coming out because she is in a relationship with you and people generally make concessions to what they would normally consider flaws to keep their level of happiness at a maximum. This happens with everyone in some way or another.


Now, if you're even thinking about considering that I'm wrong and way off base, you have to then admit that the dealer saying "Thanks for playing with us" may have genuinely meant it, because without players coming in and patronizing the place of business, his job does not exist. He may be genuinely thankful for every person that comes into that room and keeps the place in business.


As for the judging, to each their own, but would you try to rationalize that everyone should tip the way you do?

I'm not trying to make any comment on your buddy's abilities or what he/she might do, however, in general dealers will appear to be more "professional and nonjudgmental" if you start out being a good tipper as opposed to starting out being a douchebag who stiffs because they are stuck.

Bad -
4. inadequate or below standard; not satisfactory for use: bad heating; Living conditions in some areas are very bad.

Just because you tip something, doesn't mean you aren't a bad tipper. If I go out to eat with a group of friends and have a bill for $98.20. I'm still a pretty bad tipper if I leave a $100 bill and say "keep the change". You can justify it all you want by saying small tip is better no tip (Which is true, if the biggest stiff in the world gives me a dollar for the first time in 15 years, I will still smile, and thank him for it.), but again, it doesn't mean you aren't a bad tipper.

This is hilarious. In order not to appear to be a cheap bastard in front of your gf or friends, you tip 15%, apparently thinking that is a good tip and worthy of some sort of badge of honor. Newsflash: 15% was a good tip in 1983, not 2013.

Well at least to your credit you don't utilize the service rather than using the valet and then not tipping him/her.

So when you check into a hotel, do you tell the front desk that you don't want housekeeping service because you can make your own bed and clean the room yourself? Or, as I'm sure is actually the case, do you use the service and just not bother to leave a tip?

Halleluiah!

I absolutely do not think everyone should tip like me. I believe in tipping diversity, that anyone who tips and anyway that they tip is justifiable, ie it's their choice. I find it off putting for those who receive tips to be unaccepting of this and and instead conclude there's right and wrong ways of tipping.

On the contrary. When I started out playing poker, for the first six months or so, I was an above average tipper. Then for years I was an average tipper. Dealers as a whole burned that bridge over time and now I have become a below average tipper.


Well in terms of poker tipping, when the benchmark is set where some ITT see it many tips are bad by default.

This is what I meant by setting myself up for judgment if I answered questions about other tipping aspects. I do think 15% is a good tip, and I find it reassuring that 15% was a good tip in 1983 (and the only difference from then and now is probably 'I want more'). I do this partially because more time is taken and more effort is required compared to when I tip less dining alone. And I do not deny that my tips in these spots are in part to avoid a "cheap bastard" label, though not for my gf or friends' sake as they already know that I've been adapting to 'cheap' tipping.


If you're sure this is the case then why bother to ask.

I'm the opposite of your girlfriend. I actually DO feel the need to overtip when I go out to eat, gamble, and go to the bar, because I feel sorry for service workers like her who have to put up with **** people all day long, who in many cases tip the same way you do. Which isn't enough. I guarantee you if she had a choice, she'd take the overtipping tourists over the stiffs any day.

You probably covered it already, and I'm too lazy to look back to read it, but LK, how did dealers "burn a bridge with you over time" - I'm curious.

"This one time, I had a straight at showdown and the dealer misread it and started pushing the pot to the other player who had a set. The pot made it about three inches toward the other player and I was like "Woah, I have a straight!" He then re-routed the pot to me and said "Whoops, sorry about that!" That was the last time that unprofessional **** got a tip from me, let me tell you."



(I made that up)


I'm genuinely curious as to what gets someone on the DNT (Do Not Tip) list, though.

For me, it's exactly one dealer long. Guy screwed up three times during his down (two misdeals, one floor ruling situation) and then started becoming aggressive toward me when I didn't tip him on the pot he pushed me after all those screw-ups. When I see him coming, I take a break rather than suffer through his dealing. And yes, I notified a shift manager about the problem.

See, that's very understandable. I would be hard pressed to tip a waiter if he was giving me attitude about sending food back that wasn't cooked properly.

Well players are not the only ones who 'tap the glass'.

^Here's an example of a dealer's glass tapping.

The story above is made up, but based on real events. A dealer makes a sarcastic story as to make a player look bad for being a miserable nitpicker. It's not the dealing mistakes that I don't tip for in these spots, it's the poor attitude.

So how nit picky are some of you. If a dealer makes a mistake ( accidentally flips a card up on a pitch, something like that or story above) but professionally apologizes do you put him on the do not tip list. Just curious what puts a dealer in that list and is he on the list forever?
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Lies to the Floor about a player or the action in order to "get" someone (or to kiss up to someone).

Continuously short pitches the same player (or shoves pots half way or almost into their laps) (unless, of course the player is one of those who intentionally makes the dealer reach for his mucked cards and/or bets)

Makes snide comments about a player or the table in general (usually about tipping) (As he is being pushed out, one dealer loudly told his replacement "Two real beauties in seats 3 and 7").

Makes comments like "It's only $2" when someone wants the pot/rake to be right. In general, a dealer who thinks the only important money on the table are the tips he gets.

Makes the same mistakes, down after down. Shift after shift.

Not that many that are that bad. And some of them seem to finally "get it" (or are warned by management) and begin to act professionally and I start to tip them again.

When it comes to tipping, I think blaming lack of tips on nitpicking players is a myth created by dealers.

A mistake and a dealer's genuine apology is fine. Tips continue as ordinary. (Bridge maintained)

A mistake and a dealer on the defensive is not fine. It's not uncommon for the dealer to put the reason for a non-tip on the player's procedural nitpicking and fail to see their own bad attitude as the real reason. From there dealer makes assumption that player is miserable nitpicking dealer hater and figures he wouldn't be getting tips anyway so he shuns him. Tips are withheld. (Bridge burned or dealer's version of tapping the glass)

I do not have a permanent do not tip list. The opportunity is always there to win me over and some dealers do. Sadly, some dealers continue to choose the path to shun players.

The only DNT list I ever get on is by players that "never win" while I'm dealing.

I wish more people were like you and actually cared about how good of a job I was doing instead of just whether or not they are winning

This is obviously a purposely non-specific answer. And, even if one or two or three dealers did make fun of some fish a handful of times, doesn't seem like a reason to cut down on tipping anyway.

The vast majority of people here claiming to have some deep level of caring for how good a job the dealer is doing are completely full of it. They want the money for themselves, so they invent these ridiculous reasons to claim they're withholding it, all to justify their actions. Some of the thought processes given by people is comical. Give me a break - short pitching? Defensive behavior? Calling the 3-seat a "beautie"?

...because elaboration was coming in subsequent posts.

If that's not then I don't know what is.



Though I didn't mean a dealer 'tapping the glass' in a sense of disturbing the fish as a player would. A player who 'taps the glass' disturbs the fish and it can result in less money for the player by chasing fish money away. A dealer's version of 'tapping the glass' is disturbing players and chasing their tips away. Dealer's version of tapping glass as another way to describe burning bridges, how about cutting their own throats, biting the hand that feeds you.

Because I'd like to hear your excuse - - - pardon me, rationale - - - for not tipping housekeeping.

There are a lot of people that don't tip housekeepers because they don't know they're supposed to. Most people say "Oh, I didn't know that was the normal thing to do" and tip from then on when they remember. Some people say "Oh, well hardly anyone does that, so there's no way I'm doing it."

Ok, then. Since you don't know I will enlighten you.

If I'm staying multiple nights then as soon as I enter the room I put the DND sign on the outside door. I'm a low maintenance guest and do not require cleaning during my stay. When I depart I do not leave a tip behind for the housekeeper who will clean the room. My excuse / rationale...

Housekeeping is not a tip dependent job. Those who do tip housekeepers are just brainwashed into thinking it's necessary. Some people think "Somewhere, somebody said I'm supposed to tip housekeepers so I tip housekeepers."