Sorry for potential noob question

But after being angled once already in a casino i really wanted to find out about this.

If villain goes all in and your just thinking and then you say something like "im tempted to call you" or.. "im not sure if i can call" or... "ive folded so many times i may just call the bet" (or something along those lines)

If villain then flips over their cards and declares "nuts" or any other hand that beats yours... could villain argue that you said call? Or possible could villain even mis-hear you and think you called them?

And if so, could you dispute this?

The point im basically making is I think when you sometimes verbalise your thoughts there could be room for a potential angle (especially if someone is sitting there with the nuts).

I know people will say "dont verbalise your thoughts then" and true i agree, but I have a big mouth and sometimes cant help myself!

But equally i know my point could be reversed too. Your sitting there with the nuts and you think someone said call, what happens....

Thanks

If you clearly say something along the lines: "I do not think I can call" or "How much more is it to call?", you will almost always be in the right and if the villain turns his cards over - it will be on him.

However, if you mumble something under your breath and the only distinct word is call, then you either open yourself up to be angled or worse yet are angling yourself.

ty for reply ^^ I once pld a total utter nit that never showed up with anything else other than the nuts. I imagine he would be the sort of person to try this type of angle

The problem is that in a noisy casino, you can never be sure what the other players, and more importantly the dealer, hear or don't hear. You might say "I can't call" and when the floor shows up, the dealer says "I heard him say 'I call"". And he may well have heard only that. Often, unless other players back you up (and often they don't) the floor will go with what the dealer heard versus what you claim you said. Plus, you expose yourself to a potential angleshooter.

There's no valid reason to use action words like call, fold in a sentence when action is on you. If you say you can't help yourself, then it may end up costing you money. Hopefully the pain of losing enough money will get you to the place where you can, in fact, start helping yourself by keeping your mouth shut.

There's no correlation between whether someone is a nit or a maniac, and whether they are an angle shooter. It's not a matter of tight or loose; it's a matter of honest or dishonest.

Haha i think the real problem here is me opening my mouth! Tho the situations you list could clearly easily happen.

On that basis I think it will be better to come up with different phrases. For example "I dont know what to do in this tough spot" - "how much did he make it" - "i have to think long and hard here" - haha. Best of both worlds that way! No confusion and i get to open my big gob xD

I also agree on the honest / dishonest comment

The answer is as soon as you leave your action to interpretation, you put yourself at the mercy of a stranger. Don't be Blanche DuBois. If you don't have enough self-control to shut up when you have a decision, you may not have what it takes to be a winning player.

You can not be held to a call just for including the word "call" in a sentance.

Not to hijack the thread or change topics but today I spoke up when I witnessed a true angle that I have seen more than once.

Heads up on the river is a pro and a recreational player. The rec bet the river and the pro tanked for a bit then started to cut out chips well behind the line planning to call. As he was doing so, the rec pretended to think he called and made it look like he was about to flip over his hand and said "straight" before he stopped himself.

The pro still made the bet and won with two pairs. The rec mucked.

No one said anything so I said "I thought u had a str8" he said "no I was just messing with him" so I said "No dude its called an angle shot"

I was a little surprised no one else said anything but when I see these angles I'm not affraid to call them out on it.

i disagree. most angles are taken by pathetic regs who are marginal winners who generally play tight.

If everyone is in agreement about what you said then I would agree with this.

However it is very possible that you are misheard/misunderstood and the fact that you needlessly used the word call (or bet or fold for that matter) is taking an unnecessary risk.

If a floor comes to the table and some people are saying you said "call" and that was what caused your opponent to expose his hand and you say "What I said was 'I was tempted to call'" it would be very reasonable for that floor to rule you called. Because you chose to unnecessarily say call and that it caused your opponent to think you called and expose your hand. You were the one who caused the confusion so you are the one who sufferes the consequences of it.

Don't say the word Call unless you intend to Call or don't mind being ruled against. This is easy don't you think?

As predicted by OP, lol.

Of course. The floor could rule either way.

Of course. The floor could rule either way.

Of course. The floor could rule either way.

I learned the hard way not use the words "call", "raise", "all-in" and "fold" while facing action. I was held to a raise for asking if another player's bet was a raise. Fortunately it was in a LHE game.

In a NL tournament I saw a guy say "I fold ..." and then show us the nuts and tell us he meant to say "if I raise then you will fold". He was held to his fold.

If you need to ask a question make it "what did he do?" or something like that. If you must talk to yourself out loud then be forewarned that bad things can happen.

Better not to say anything.

Ive ran into this twice before. It didn't happen to me personally but it was at my table both times.

First time, one guy went all-in and the other player tanked. He mumbled something and "call" was heard. The dealer asked the guy, "What did you say?" Then the all-in guy turned over his cards claiming he said, "Call". The dealer called the floor over. The ruling went to the guy that tanked because he never made it clear that he did call nor put any money in the pot.

Second time was similar, except this time, the dealer told the all-in guy to hold on to confirm the guy did say call. The guy ended up calling and the dealer told him to put some money in the pot first to confirm he is calling. The floor was called over to make sure everything went right. I applaud the dealer to confirm before moving forward in the hand.

Some people say phrases to all-in bets to see if they can get some type of read on the person. And I think your OK to do that and that should be your right. But as most of these guys have said, your at risk when you say words like that. I think as long as you don't motion your chips in the pot and say call, you should be good.

On the reverse side, let's not be idiots and turn your cards over before being sure the opponent is calling!

At the end of the day, THIS.

And yes, if no one else is offering an opinion and it's dealer vs player floor people are going to take the dealers' side. That's one of many reasons there are live dealers.

The room has some responsibility from preventing angles, but players should be aware and not open themselves up to angles either.

Unfortunately, reading through this forum proves otherwise.

As soon as the dealer claims he heard you call the bet and no other player speaks up for you, your chances of a favorable floor ruling aren't too good. Doesn't even matter if you said something conditional like 'i might be tempted to call this' or about last night when 'an old friend called me for the first time in years'. Dealer thinks you called, players around you shrug their shoulders and you might be out of luck.

as long as you say it clear enough so the dealer and players around you understand what you are saying, then you will be find.

example: I am in seat 1. Seat 9 bets the flop. I can't see seat 10's action, so I say "Did he call?"

I understand the argument but that could happen with anything if it's not said clear and loud enough. If a player goes all-in, and I am not sure what the bet is and I say "Is he all-in?" this could also sound like I just went all-in if I say it muffled and low.

Obviously to avoid these misunderstandings the best thing to do would be say "What is his action?" and avoid using the acting words in questions.

Well, whatever you do, don't ask for clarification. Nothing is less sexy than calmly asking the dealer what happened, and they'll probably edit it out of the TV broadcast anyway.

You've basically got three weapons at your disposal.

1. Jizz in your pants immediately. It takes a superhuman amount of strength to keep your cards face down on the table when omg omg omg omg you have the nuts.

2. Jump up and shout that he called. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, say that he called over and over again.

3. Preemptively call the floor. I mean it's gonna happen anyway, so take control of the situation. And since everyone else is going to lie to the floor, you might as well too.

While any good whiner is going to get all three in at some point, which one to do first is a matter of style. Most people go 1-2-3 for maximum confusion when the floor arrives. But there's something to be said for holding out 1 until the floor looks like he's going to rule against you. Since you do in fact hold the nuts, it will be impossible for him to rule against you because you deserve to get paid when you have the nuts.

if you absolutely have to talk, just say something like "i think i have to put my chips in the pot here." avoid "action" words like call that can be used against you

Dealer: "He calls the all-in. Showdown... Let's see 'em guys..."

Player: But I didn't say call

Dealer: FLOOR

Even though a perfect dealer would ask you what you were doing, many would not. WP

Forgot the other option of refusing to put the chips into the pot. Getting up, cashing in and never returning to that casino

Reminded me of a hand in Vegas where Villain doesn't speak English well and says call on river after I bet. I show my hand and he claims he said "all" and wanted to go all in.

Ruling here?

If he said "call", then it's a call regardless of what he claims. So assuming the dealer and other players back you up, the floor should rule it as a call.

He doesn't get to change his verbalized all to an all-in bet after seeing your hand.