Please use this thread to discuss moderation of the B&M Forum. This thread, like the low-content thread, will be moderated less strictly than the rest of the forum in order to encourage users to speak freely with regard to moderation. Trolling does not have a place in the B&M Forum and therefore it won't be tolerated in this thread, but with that one caveat we sincerely hope that you'll get involved via this thread to help us make the B&M Forum more useful to yourself and the community.

I'd like to update this OP every so often to highlight the issues that are being discussed the most and also to alert the community to any issues that are considered "off the table." For instance, as of right now (2011.04.07), although there has been a good bit of discussion about it (see this thread in ATF -- http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...i-b-m-1011971/) the issue of discussing cardroom staff and non-famous players is off the table. All of the B&M mods agree that users simply must respect the privacy of those people subject to the exceptions noted in the forum guidelines. So please refrain from discussion of that issue in this thread for now because no amount of discussion will change that guideline at this time.

Everything else, however, is on the table. Have at it!

Here's a couple of hot-button issues to toss around while I'm away from the forums for a couple of weeks (hopefully I'll have a decent TR on poker in central Europe when I return):

(1) Is "+1" a no-content post? There's some discussion of this issue in the 2011 low-content thread and here's an ATF thread with even more discussion: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...havior-952367/.

(2) Should off-topic/low-content chat be allowed in B&M Forum threads? Related discussion can be found in the 2011 low-content thread and in these ATF threads: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...hreads-834550/ & http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...i-b-m-1011971/.

(3) Should the Atlantic City About Town Thread that I moved to the Travel Forum because it doesn't have anything to do with poker (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/92...thread-427749/) be moved back to B&M?

I'd add (4) which involves the regular moving of threads into the LC thread.

I think +1 should be acceptable. Here's an example why:

OP: Is this an angle? <scenario>
Poster 1: Yes, because... <reason>
Poster 2: No, because... <reason>
Poster 3: No, also because <different reason>

If I agree with Poster 1, but have nothing new to add, I'm to remain quiet by the current rules. Let's say the next 10 people who read the thread also agree with Poster 1 but have no additional reasons to present. To the OP, it looks like it's 2-1 'no', when in reality it's 12-2 'yes'. I know this can be solved via a poll, but most don't create one, and also these can occur mid-thread.

Not allowing +1 prevents any depth to an opinion, in a quantifiable way.

Yes and no. I was one of the people who helped push for what became the Mohegan/Foxwoods thread in BBV4L, which is a far from perfect solution, but it works (or it did for a while, it's pretty dead now). I feel that LC chat amongst the casino regulars strengthens the sense of community we have here. But I understand Rapini's view that the B&M forum is meant to be more informational than conversational.

I've been following along with the ATF thread that prompted this one. I agree with whoever presented the idea of having a B&M sub-forum for this sort of thing. It would primarily consist of casino regulars in a self-contained thread meant for chatter, by casino (A Foxwoods thread, a Borgata thread, etc). This would also serve the purpose of segregating the information from the conversation, giving info searchers a much easier time parsing through the related casino thread's posts.

I don't think that the low content thread should be a sticky. People tend to miss it (yes I've said this before - it's true - look at the page views of the rules and regulations threads, they go completely unnoticed).

I'm not a big fan of the "+1" syntax, but like Lattimer pointed out, a large number of B&M posts are ethics related or subjective (at the very least), and seeing who lines up on which side of a discussion is important.

It's important to sometimes be able to say, "That guy there? He's right."

----

Also, since you're asking, yes, the local/regional cardroom threads need less strictly moderated. If you don't allow the regulars from those casinos to "play" a little bit in them, then they're not going to be around to take Q&A from casual players who stumble across them.

+1

Edit: Bah, wanted to keep it as a pure +1 thread, but I wish to add to this point. Not only will regulars stop reading the thread as often if it is 100% serious business, the thread will also be a lot less likely to be on the first few pages of B&M, making it less likely a casual person stumbles upon it.

This means they will either a) never get to ask their questions or b) start a new thread, which then a mod will have to merge with the rooms already existing thread and then explain to the poster where their thread went.

In this case, extra modding actually creates a higher likelyhood of even more modding in the future.

IRT the [name of location] threads, could we please close them down and start new ones occasionally? The Colorado "new" betting limits are very not new anymore, for example, and it can be really tedious to wade through a million pages. Most people don't bother and either don't use the thread, or just ask the same question again and again.

When is Nosup4u coming back?

+1, is it content? I think it is. The fact is that rules and procedures vary from room to room and area to area.

There is a lot of redundancy in B&M and I think that is helpful if for no other reason than to see what other parts of the poker universe think on the subject. If I, a dealer dual/rate in Oklahoma, agree with PSand who performs similar duties in LV agree, it's meaningful. If I have to write a paragraph to say I think Psand nailed it,(for instance) I might just move on. Especially if I am on my phone instead of a full size keyboard.

If 5 posters show their support for a particularly well written post, it adds credence to the post. +1 accomplishes that without devoting the last 5 minutes of a break at work to doing so.

How is +1 even an issue ? Its not like you even have to read it, you are seeing it for less then a second and then you know that person agrees. Just ignore people saying that if for some weird reason it bothers you, pretty easy to scroll past...

I think +1 should be allowed. Although it may be the easy way out of having to type a post, it is a reasonable response in a lot of situations.

Plus, ignoring it isnt that hard.

I have been upset since I first started reading/posting on 2+2 that there is no good place that I can find to discuss live poker with live poker players. MSNL is flooded with 6max online, which doesn't relate much, LLSNL is a lot of 1/2 discussion which I'm not so interested in bc I play higher stakes. I end up finding threads randomly throughout theory, probability, psychology and many of them are still flooded with the opinions of online players, which one again doesn't relate much.

When I first came to Bam I thought itd be a discussion by live players about live play in live casinos. Really, it's full of threads about individual casinos, but not that helpful as far as learning and sharing ideas with other players in order to inhance play. There is a lot that goes on in live play that online players don't see, and a lot of ways to exploit that aren't available in online play. Should I just stick to LLNL?

I also don't get the whole aversion to the +1 thing.

If I add something like

"This is undoubtedly the correct decision, as the above user has said a 10 minute penalty should be the minimum here."

I haven't really added anything to the discussion it's just a +1 that won't trigger a warning, but will make the thread longer to read.

After giving the matter considerable thought, and reading what others have been saying, I'm going to reverse my opinion of this one and ask that "+1" posts be allowed. There are times when 2 (or more) sides of an issue argue it out - and there soon is really nothing new to add in the way of usefull content.

But, as others have pointed out, it is helpful to see who agrees with whom, and how many are agreeing. Since putting mid-thread polls in place is not doable (as already discussed in ATF threads), "+1" is an easy way to show agreement without doing what in reality is unneeded writing.

I would say "no" to this. Usefull information is what we come here for, not chatter. What I would like to see is a B&M chat subforum. For that matter, I think that some revising of the forum structure would be a good idea.

Have B&M gain some subforums.

A B&M chat subforum.
Move the "Live Low-stakes NL" subforum to here.
And put the "Live LImit NL" subforum here as well if it ends up getting created. Click here for the relevant thread in ATF.
The Atlantic City thread could become its own subforum here.
Maybe even put the "Las Vegas Lifestyles" subforum here.

In short, everything B&M would be in one easy to find and navigate place.

In my opinion, yes. Please see my response to question 2.

Thanks for starting this thread, Rapini, and I hope that you a wonderful trip.

Lee

MHFR is mostly a live forum.

Great idea with #2 lee! Live poker is so diluted and scattered on 2+2, I really think it's time to consolidate it.

Beautiful! Thank you!

I think that if we end up getting a chat subforum, starting new casino threads in the current forum would be a good idea. This ensures that the active threads are only about information, and makes it easier to find what you're looking for. The existing threads can be locked, and linked to in the OP of the new thread for reference.

It's frustrating when dealers, floor people, floor managers, and a poker room manager are inconsistent in their application of rules and policies. Similarly, it is frustrating that forums in 2+2 are moderated without consistency.

It is disappointing that some forums seem to be doing just fine, But, then, when a person posts exactly what is posted in another forum in 2+2, in a forum moderated by Rapini, Rapini issues infraction points and deletes posts.

Commenting on Rapini's moderation style, another 2+2 moderator said:
Wouldn't it a good idea for all 2+2 forums to be moderated/managed with the same guidelines?

I think it would be a horrible idea to have 1 set of guidelines for the entire site. Every thread would either become full of 'LOL' 'pics or GTFO' etc, or be too business-like. In either case, it'd get old fast. It's good to have designated areas for fun, and areas to be serious. I just feel B&M needs 1 of each.

Do you think the content in BBV4L and in B&M make sense to be managed by the same guidelines?

What you're all forgetting is that it is pretty easy to type out;
Yep. Agree completely.

+1 is a little crass and usually gets used in a crass way. Its usually not someone wishing to add his affirmation to a point, but rather someone trying to quote a witty point in a non-witty way. +1 is a lazy form of posting usually used by trolls. Unlike Rapini, I'm not suggesting that we infract for minor offenses like this, but we posters could try to do better and not use +1. Its lazy and trollish.

While I'm a big fan of not using the +1 response and would be happy to see it dumped:

"trollish" ?

Yes, it would. Let's use mine.

I just want to say that I think this forum has been modded pretty reasonably ever since *TT* left. I'm not sure if you're doing a great job, or if you just tower over him in every way because he was so awful.

Regardless, it is tough to complain now that it is so much better. Keep doing what you're doing, imo.