That's what I mean. Popping in there to play poker at a soft table is cool. Playing there for a living and being in that depressing environment 35+ hrs a week is not so cool. It will wear on you. You need a bright happy inviting place to play or it will get old very quickly.

^another reason multi-casino game availability is key if you want poker to be your primary income.

Mike your TR seems to confirm what we all know about LA.

I was kind of hoping you'd elicit a comment from Mike, but, bluntly, Mike: how much about the softness and frequency of games was a surprise to you? Would you still advocate that people build their bankroll at Winstar or whatever?

I was very surprised that the games were that soft in L.A. I'll go ahead and use the word "shocked".

Lots of people on 2+2 think the games in S. Florida are soft, but they arent at all. Ive heard they used to be a few yrs ago but they aren't any more.

I would now rank L.A. as the best games when it comes to availability of games, softness of games, and highest win rates, however there's still the issue of the cost of living being dramatically higher than most parts of the Country.

If you think Casino Montreal is depressing, well..there's a lot worse. I invite you to travel 2 hours west of Montreal to the Thousand Islands Casino, where you sit on a bar stool and the waitresses have missing teeth.

Sure, there are lots of places that are worse. I played at Ft. Pierce Jai Alai/ Poker a few months ago. Just the fact that they have Jai Alai should tell yuo how old the place is. One of the bathroom sinks was yanked off the wall and was laying on the floor. It had been there quite a while because a friend of mine played there 6 months before me and told me about it. It was still there when I played.

They had ripped all the carpet up in the whole poker room and never replaced it. It was concrete with all the swirled trowel marks from where they put the glue down.

So, yeah, there are lots of dumps all over the place but Casino Montreal is the worst one that Ive seen listed as a great place for a pro to play full time.

Fair enough. But you can see why some of us are whenever people glibly dismiss LA.

It's like political lobbyists refusing to consider Washington DC, or computer programmers refusing to consider the SF Bay Area, or oil drillers refusing to consider North Dakota.

There are a lot of good reasons to hate LA. But with games that good, you need at least one good reason to dismiss it.

Montreal will perk you up, when your win rate goes up and into uncharted territory. The players at Casino Montreal are probably the worst in North America. Sometimes French Canadian players sneak down to Toronto and play at some Casinos in Ontario and they are easy to recognize, with their overly loose-aggressive play.

Aside from that, when not doing the poker thing, you have an amazing city with lots of culture, atmosphere and night life. Good Food. Relatively inexpensive living expenses, especially compared to Toronto or Big cities in the Eastern USA.

Honestly I haven't been there in a few years but the games were always great.
However anytime i went there the first few days I was amazed at the softness of the games, after that i just felt dirty being surrounded by the absolute scum of the earth between the floor and the players,especially at commerce.
I took a 2 week trip there once, won almost 20k and still hated myself by the end.These people go well past normal casino scum.

So that and the high cost of living in LA are 2 reasons I wouldn't want to move there for poker.

What is so scummy about them?

Take a bath in $100 bills to clean yourself off!

People need to be honest with themselves. If the question really is, "Where in the US, Canada, or Western Europe can I rent a 1-bedroom apartment in a suburban neighborhood for less than $1,000/mo and have less than a 30 minute drive to a mediocre or better 2/5 NL game," then ask that. Don't ask "where are the best games in the world" or "where can i make the most money playing poker" and then discard the top 3 answers because of unstated preferences.

Outside of poker, I've had sub-2 minute phone interviews with recruiters where I'm like, "I'm not moving outside of X and Y regions because of personal reasons. Is this the end of the conversation?" I'm well aware I've passed up some opportunities so I'm not condemning the whole idea of being picky. But it just saves everyone time when people are up front about it. Insist on living someplace with an active KKK chapter? That's fine, don't be all "where da donks at" and then "oh not LA with all them ******s." Afraid to fly an airplane but want to go to the WSOP every year? Don't be all "where da best poker in the world" and then add "within driving distance of Las Vegas" in post #34.

To be frank, I hate LA. I would probably rather not be a poker pro than be a poker pro in LA. But if someone asks me where yhe best poker is in the US, the obvious answer is LA.

angle shooting
collision
players fighting cursing at each other just a terrible atmosphere
floor that is beyond shady and corrupt


and it's still profitable so enjoy!

i agree with all of this.

Out of sheer curiosity, if someone wanted to consistently play nosebleed stakes (not crazy Macau level, but definitely higher than 2-5 / 5-10 / 10-20), would the answer then revert back to Vegas or would LA still be the spot? For arguments sake, lets discount private games and stick with what runs in casinos that anyone can sit down & play in.

At the higher stakes, I know you're generally looking at mixed game more so than PLO or NLH-only. Seems like there's usually something going at either Aria or Bobby's Room if social media is to be believed... just curious if those higher games also run in LA frequently?

If you really want to play sky high, Bellagio/Aria might be the answer. But if you walk into the Bellagio poker room on a regular night and look what happened to the once busy high stakes area, you realize there’s basically nothing left in between. 25/50 and 50/100 isn’t really a thing anymore, at last based on my experience (of walking past that area to go to the bathroom) in recent years.

I played in the LA area for a few days in September. In the Commerce $200 game (blinds $3/$5) it was $6+$1 if there was a river card; $5+$1 if there was a flop but no river; $1+$1 if there was no flop, including chops.

Los Angeles. Best games in the world 24x7 for both $5 big blinds and 5-10+. While building bankroll at $5 BB games, you can take shots at 5-10 at Commerce and Hollywood Park when games are good and / or you are running good. Being in LA allows rhat. Between 5-5 (500) at commerce, 5-5 (600) at Gardens, 5-5 (1000) at Bike and 5-5 (1000) at Hustler, you will always have some good games especially if you are willing to drive / Uber across these casinos.

Another important reason to be in LA is to know the lag of the land while preparing for 5-10+ where the real money is. Players are different in every market and there are different segments of players. It takes a while to know the players individually as well as the segments and when / where / how they spew. For example one of the five casinos will have a big tournament going in any given week and some tourney players after busting an evening flight will spew off a few buyins. An aggressive young SLAG Armenian or Hispanic player tilts very differently (overbluffing garbage) older stuck Asian nits (overplaying premium hands). Also you get to know who the good players are and some of them play both 5-5 and 5-10, game selecting or while waiting for bigger games.

LA can be expensive. But if you are single, there are workarounds. Sharing rooms, staying farther away from the city centers and / or in less desirable neighborhoods. There are hostels and airbnb options. In the extreme situation, merging vehicle dwelling with hostel nights you can get by for less than $1k monthly for accommodation. Casino comps are good, so food is almost free.
Overall COL is not a good excuse for not being in LA for a single professional poker pro. Family is a different consideration altogether.

Don't forget Hollywood Park. I found the 5/5 games there to be the softest of the 4 rooms I played (Commerce, Gardens, Bike and HP). Small sample, but I played 2 different days with all different players and the action was nutso both times.

ya LA strikes me as a great place to try vehicle dwelling if you're young and making a go at pro poker. you want the biggest possible selection of walmarts in the area for reliable hassle-free overnight parking and balmy weather, both of which LA has. awesome places to travel within easy driving distance are a bonus. and food seems cheap in LA.

I wouldn’t want to be playing professionally and living in some fleabag hostel. Airbnb is not always cheap. Kind of depends. Pro poker means winning and carrying large amounts of cash. Someone is going to see it. Making you a prime target for theft.

Not always the case. Actually not usually the case. and the 5/5 dies down to one table every night, maybe between 11-2am or so.

Lastly, if you do decide to slum it at hollywood park or any LA based casino, they are all definitely not located in a desirable neighborhood. For the guy saying you can sleep in your car -- please don't. you'll just end up robbed, stabbed, or dead.

I don't play that late anyway. If you are a professional player (with no day job) and you can get crazy good action at all hours of the day, why would you want to play that late?

Most casinos arent in the greatest areas. They build them where the real estate is cheaper for the most part.

If you need to sleep in your car to be a pro poker player, you need a new career. I certainly wouldn't sleep in my car near one of these casinos but I didnt feel unsafe at any point at any of them.

Many poker players are night owls, they prefer to live/work/play late at night.

Before you resort to "less desirable," try "selectively desirable."

There are places that work for everyone - suburban neighborhoods with covered parking, for instance - and places that don't work for everyone. If you can speak a foreign language or drive off-peak or have a high tolerance for the smell of fast food, you can live where others can't. If you're religious, hit up a local church or synagogue or mosque or temple and ask if they have a personals board. If you were in a fraternity or sorority, call up a local chapter and see if they can help a brother or sister out. Your best leads are the ones that I can't predict - the quirks that are special to you. Like try a juggling message board. Or Juggalo. Or use your connections in the porn industry to rent a room at a place they use to shoot pornos during the weekends.

And if after all of that, if you can't find anything except for the 1-BR in a gated neighborhood in a low melanin community and that's too expensive, then you can declare LA is too expensive and go to a place wherre the poker is inferior.

But it really seems like people spend way more effort rationalizing why they can't make it work in the hands down #1 place than they spend trying to figure out if there's any way they can make it work.

get a box.

i would never recommend parking and sleeping in any of the areas of LA the casinos are in. regardless of poker as a vehicle dweller you have to find good places to park and it's not that easy. suburban Walmarts are a good start. so you would likely be commuting to the casino in your mobile house.

again, this is just an interesting option for the young kids taking a swing at this. it puts you in the best place to be a pro without having to deal with the high cost of living nearly as much. the mobility is also nice in that scenario. say you want to check things out in Vegas instead, you just drive there and stay for as long as you want.