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| Brick and Mortar Discussions of brick and mortar gambling venues |
08-19-2012, 10:33 AM
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#1
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adept
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 921
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At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
The other night I was in a pot at 1/2 with this kid who checked the turn dark, I checked back, then he checked the river to me. The board was KK5JQ and I held QQ. I started cutting out a $40 bet and he was cutting out the call simultaneously. We're each about $600 deep.
I said "How much will you call if I bet?" and he says "140. 240. I'll call an all in, I don't care. You just say all in and I'll call- you don't even need to put your chips in the middle."
Not that I would be a jerk about this, because I like the guy and him and I are both regulars at this club and I don't make a habit of shooting angles, but out of curiosity what would he have had to say to bind him to an action?
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08-19-2012, 10:36 AM
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#2
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Itchycoo Park
Posts: 10,734
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Re: At What Point is this Binding?
He can say anything in response to your question and it should not be binding.
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08-19-2012, 10:58 AM
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#3
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Referee
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Living on the air in 3 forums
Posts: 15,547
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Re: At What Point is this Binding?
Table talk. Not binding.
On the other hand, if you had said, "I bet $100, will you call," that could be considered binding. Even if you put an "if" in front of it, if the dealer doesn't hear it, it could be considered binding.
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08-19-2012, 11:06 AM
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#4
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adept
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 921
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
Yeah I suppose I could've said something like "So let me think... I bet two hundred, you call?" and if he's like "yeah!" then that was a bet and a call?
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08-19-2012, 11:07 AM
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#5
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old hand
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pond
Posts: 1,631
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobwe00
I said "How much will you call if I bet?" and he says "140. 240. I'll call an all in, I don't care. You just say all in and I'll call- you don't even need to put your chips in the middle."
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Depending on where you're playing, and what rules are being used, that could be binding. For instance, under TDA rules, something like "You just say all in and I'll call" could be ruled binding by the floor.
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08-19-2012, 11:16 AM
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#6
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Itchycoo Park
Posts: 10,734
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobwe00
Yeah I suppose I could've said something like "So let me think... I bet two hundred, you call?" and if he's like "yeah!" then that was a bet and a call?
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In that case you are betting $200 and phrasing your statement to confuse your opponent and have him inadvertently call.
No thanks.
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08-19-2012, 12:46 PM
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#7
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newbie
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 35
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
The best way to determine if he will call your bet, is to bet and see if he calls. This is also the fastest and least likely to make anyone mad (him, you, dealer, other players, floor). If his chips are in the middle, it is binding.
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08-19-2012, 01:22 PM
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#8
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journeyman
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 396
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
House rules apply, but typically in cash games this is not binding.
As OneCrazyDuck said, this is a lot more dangerous in tournaments as 2011 TDA rules indicate this may be binding. An argument could be made that action had changed (you hadn't set a bet amount yet) so you never know what the floor might say. It depends on how it is related to him, whether people have a history, whether he is familiar with 2011 TDA, etc.
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08-20-2012, 11:52 PM
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#9
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dealing with it, one hand at a time
Posts: 6,126
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You have the best hand, why not just bet your hand and move on?
Asking these sort of questions seldom gives you any real actionable info and it can create a situation that neither you nor the other player would want to be in.
Remember, if you or the other player disagree about what the action is, you have to call a floor and who knows how that will turn out?
Do you want to take the chance that the random floor who responds will get it right?
Just make your bet, let the other player act on his hand.
Last edited by Rapini; 08-21-2012 at 07:16 PM.
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08-21-2012, 10:21 AM
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#10
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adept
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: @Donk
Posts: 980
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
Nothing should be binding. Not sure why you said anything to him.
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08-22-2012, 04:14 AM
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#11
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adept
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 921
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
In case I didn't make it clear enough in OP, I didn't actively try to shoot an angle, I never called the floor, and I never tried to entice him to say something that could be interpreted as binding. I just started to wonder if anything he said out of turn could be interpreted as binding. Villain in the hand is a friend of mine. I am familiar with the concept of silent valuebetting.
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08-22-2012, 10:14 AM
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#12
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old hand
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: occupation: weapon
Posts: 1,236
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
I dislike the notion of having a verbal declaration--out of turn--being binding. Leads to far too many problems/angles.
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08-22-2012, 10:33 AM
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#13
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Itchycoo Park
Posts: 10,734
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobwe00
I just started to wonder if anything he said out of turn could be interpreted as binding.
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If the room makes out of turn statements binding, "I call" is usually the standard.
"I might...", "If you do X then I will Y", "You know I will call you", are not calls.
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08-22-2012, 03:57 PM
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#14
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old hand
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pond
Posts: 1,631
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Re: At What Point is table talk when heads up this Binding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbobwe00
I just started to wonder if anything he said out of turn could be interpreted as binding.
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And as was stated in, like, the first half dozen posts of this thread... the answer is "maybe".
There are poker rooms where it would have been binding. There are poker rooms where it wouldn't have been binding. Figure out the rules of the room you're in, and you'll know.
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