This is a hand that happened today at a casino. I have an opinion on what should be the correct ruling. Two players to the river, CO and the button. The river card is turned and the button checks. CO then bets at pot. What are the options available to the button?

Robert's Rules clearly states that the button can only call or fold. There seems to be some debate based on where in the country this hand occurs as to the ruling. I'd like to hear the opinions of the educated players on this fine forum.

Depends on the rules of the room which will trump all other rules. In most rooms, since he checked out of turn, he can only call or fold. In a few rooms he would be allowed to raise.

Room rules trump all. Otherwise, this is one of the RRoP that many senior folks here seem to hate, and fewer rooms implement. Often, the change in action to the button means that all options are open to him. Less often, it is as RRoP says, and he can only call or fold.

I don't think that is true the button was out of turn and the action changed. So all options are available.

Ot maybe not as RRoP says:

I think he should lose his option to raise. Discourages angle-shooting.

I read that to agree with my previous post.

Only if you ignore this -

and only that if you ignore this.

I admit the rule seems to be contradicting itself. I am not a grinder who plays all the time so I am sure you guys see this more often, but from what I recall in the rooms I have played they seem to follow the statement I list. So as some have said I guess it is room dependent.

That is somewhat generic. So it gets trumped by how specific this is....


Question about a similar thing I saw last night. Didn't really think anything of it, but this thread made me think of it.

Seat 8 raises to 7
Seat 1 calls 7 (out of turn)
Seat 9 raises to 27
Seat 1 raises to 127

Is seat 1 bound to a call or fold, or can he now raise?

It depends what the rules of the particular poker room are but in all rooms that I have played in, I believe the button can fold, call, or raise. His action is only binding if the action doesn't change in front of him. Had CO checked, then button can only check in turn. If CO bets, then button can do anything he/she wants.

First, the rule listed in RRoP is absolutely clear and non-contradictory. You almost have to be intentionally misreading it to not see what it is saying. As the post above (edit: by SirRawrsALot) says, it gives a specific situation that is an exception to the generic rule.

Second, each room can use whatever rules they want, and RRoP is just a generic guide that we use here. So it's very possible that the rooms you played at have all done this differently than RRoP. Or that the dealers enforced it that way without knowing the room's actual rule.

As said above, house rules apply. In addition, Rule 1 trumps all other rules.

That said if I was the dictator of a poker room, the button only gets to call or fold. The reason is that if he was acting out of good faith, he didn't want to put any more money in the pot. Therefore, he has no reason to raise. If he wasn't acting in good faith, he shouldn't be rewarded for his angle shot.

PS. I'll note that if he had said bet "X" amount, he would be allowed to raise to a bet.

I think it's really room and very situation dependent:

In the first question did the button deliberately check out of turn, or did he for some reason think it was his action and check? I think it would make a difference on the ruling, even if the house rules are RRoP.

(I've actually been tired before and done this thinking I was first to act for some reason... I didn't do it for this reason, but if you 'forget where you are in the action' a check doesn't necessarily indicate you don't want to put more chips in the pot since a check-raise is a legal play.)

In the second question it seems more deliberate since he initially called then when it was actually his action he raised, but since the action was changed by a raise before it got to him all actions should be available.

Just my .05 on the two questions.

This, too, was answered by the quoted RRoP excerpt:
Although action changed, I think he's still limited to call or fold.