1/2 Game. UTG straddles for $4. What is the smallest bet that is a raise? Is it $6 or $8?

Reason, I ask, was in a game, UTG straddles for $4 with $4 behind. I'm to his left with 99 and have very good scary image right now. Intended to make it $6, let straddler go AI for $8, then repop.

Was told the minimum raise vs. a straddle is $8. Is that correct?

It that room, apparently it's correct. Where I work you could raise to 6.

Room dependent. Seen it called both ways.

Why not just call? Pretty good chance that the Straddler will raise his last $4 anyway.

Plus, a player with a "very good scary image" raising just $2 here (if allowed) would send off alarms for me. But then, I'm the suspicious type.

In a room where the minimum raise is twice the straddle, it was explained as the straddle being treated like a bigger blind.

This is correct.

I fell back to that plan B when told I could not raise to $6. Got about 4 callers, no raise from the real shortie, flop comes A97 two spades. I bet half the pot on the flop and it folded out everybody. I think because even when I got caught bluffing using my god mode image, I backed into a few hands and won anyway, and because all the times I did bluff w/o showdown, the table full of weak passives were just avoiding me. It was so bad, later in the session I scaled back my pre-flop raise to $7 with 3-4 callers in front with AA on the button and took it down pre. It was surreal. I now see the temptation of playing a LAG style, because when you run good, you can just do whatever you want.

I've seen it both ways as well.

$8

Entirely room dependent. I've dealt in different rooms that rule this situation differently.

I've only seen it where the answer would be $8, so this has been educational for me. The places where it's $6, is it still a live straddler where the straddle acts last pre?

OP:

"Was told the minimum raise" , by whom?

Did you ask for a Floor?

Did you ask the Poker Room Manager (after the hand) what the rule was?

1. Dealers don't always know the rules or how to interpret them.
2. Floors ditto
3. For my own information/comfort/protection, I will often double check with higher ups later. If I get a different answer, I will suggest that the correct ruling be passed down the chain of command.

It is room-dependent because some dealers, floor staff, and managers misunderstand the rules.

At Tampa Hard Rock, you have to double the straddle for a raise. The first time I played poker at a different casino, it was Harrah's Las Vegas. There was a straddle, and then a guy raised just the amount of the big blind, instead of double the straddle. I asked is that OK, and the dealer and all the players looked at me like I was an idiot. They all said "of course, the straddle is like a raise, not a blind".

Being the out of towner, I didn't push it any further, and didn't really care anyway, so I would never have thought to ask for a floor ruling. But there wasn't any doubt among the dealer and players that the straddle was a raise, and not a higher blind.

That was an interesting trip as I discovered all sorts of things that are different than the way poker was dealt at the Tampa Hard Rock (at the time). Like out of turn action was binding, and there was such a thing as reduced rake.

8

It's the rule for their rooms, so what rule are they misunderstanding?

Rules should not be applied inconsistently in one room, or in multiple rooms. Robert's Rules of Poker are generally accepted.

A previous thread discusses this topic. Post 4 in this thread should bring resolve the question:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...-raise-961244/

I wish you the best of luck.

$8

I ran into something similar, i straddle the button for 6 a guy shove for like 9 another guy tries to shove for like 50 and is told no he can't since the player who shoved didn't double the straddle, so no one else could raise pre only fold or call??? worked out great for me crack his aces with a straight lol

Robert's Rules of Poker are a useful guide, but I've never been to a casino in my life that looks to them as an authority (maybe some home games use them). Every casino I've ever worked in has their own rule book printed out, and every rule book is different from casino to casino.

If baseball has different rules for the NL and the AL (the designated hitter rule comes to mind) and if football has different rules for college and pro (there are numerous differences, including the one foot in bounds for a valid reception rule) then why is it so crazy that casinos would have different rules too?

One consistent rule I've seen in every casino where I've worked is the one that's clearly posted on a large notice for all the players to see. It says "All decisions made by the floor or manager are final." I've never seen a single rule suggesting that appeals can be made to Robert's Rules of Poker.



And for those who believe that the next minimum valid raise absolutely must be to $8, I'll pose this question. What if the game is 1-2 limit poker with a $4 straddle? Would that change your answer about the nature of a straddle?

I think you mean $2-$4 limit poker with a $4 straddle.

And I don't find this argument persuasive because the straddle doesn't change the limits of the game .... whether you consider the straddle to be a raise of $2 or a extra blind the betting limit is still $2 preflop.

In a NL game the minimum raise changes so comapring it to limit makes no sense.

Personally I think the straddle should be considered a blind, the minimum raise in NL should be the amount of the straddle (not the difference between the BB and the straddle) and the minimum bet (in NL) on subsequent streets should be the amount of the straddle.

However I don't care if a room uses the other rule because its not a big deal. Its just not a rule which anyone shoudl be getting up in arms about.

The stupidest variation of this rule I've seen so far is at Planet Hollywood in Vegas. In their 1-2 NL game, the UTG straddle is $5, and $8 is considered a raise.

Yeah, I meant 2-4 limit. That's what happens when I post on 2p2 before my coffee.

I'm not asserting that limit is a perfect precedent but it's something to consider.

After all, the straddle doesn't change the limits of the game. That is, it's perfectly ok to lead out a 2 dollar post flop bet when there was a preflop straddle.

As for the post just above mine, I've also dealt where $8 is the next raise after a $5 straddle. And the rule isn't nearly as dumb as people who do raise to $8 either because they're clueless about poker or because they weren't paying attention and didn't know there was a straddle.

I disagree. I think we need fifty more posts about it.