So dealer doesn't want to rub it in, but was willing to run the board out and then kill his hand if it held up?

I had this situation happen the first time I played in a casino. Bet and call on river, caller tables hand face up on the muck pile and bettor tries to get it killed. Floor ruled that cards speak, which made sense to me at the time as a complete live noob.

You should have asked the floor anyway (after the fact and away from the table/the villain) just to know what you are getting yourself into if you play at this place again. Asking that day can amke sure the dealer is informed if she was wrong, but I would still ask the next time you are there so you know how closely you need to guard your cards around the dealers.

Some rooms rule that a hand that touches the muck is a mucked hand. The more common rule is that it's mucked if it's faced down, but I have seen rooms with the other rule. It usually comes into play when somebody misreads the board.

E.g., a junk card pairs on the river. Final board reads T92 4 2. Player A tables T9 and says "two pair." Player B sadly says "You're good" and throws JJ face up into the muck. Dealer kills Player B's hand. Player B realizes his error and it's too late.

While I don't know the dealer was correct, and he could have just been making rules up on the spot, it seemed probable that this was one such room.

Some of the house rules are a result of a game of telephone played by people who don't understand poker in the first place.

See also: all-in closes action

Some loud mouth stats something and the newbies, and even inexperienced dealers, hear it and take it for gospel. And they repeat it and on and on..... Until someone corrects them, but they don't believe the correction, argument ensues.

Not true at all. The muck alone does not kill a hand. Lets say you want to see a player's hand who was going to muck on showdown. Even if the dealer had the cards touch the muck, that hand is technically still live. If the hand has you beat you would lose the pot.

Edit:

Unless of course the room had a rule specific to card touches the muck it is dead.

is this even an option? I've never seen anyone refuse to pay, but I assumed if they did they would just physically take your chips and remove you from the premises / possibly call the police?

I mean it isn't like they have to take your wallet and take out the amount, they just have to refuse to let you leave with "their" chips.

Nope, the money is yours. They don't ever have to let you in the casino again, and they can forcibly escort you out, but they can't force you to give money to another player. I forget if they're able to put the chips into holding indefinitely while investigating the situation or something.

Casinos cannot force a player to pay off any bet at a poker table. But they will take action against you, most likely an 86. Chips are also the property of the player and casinos cannot forcibly remove them for the player's possession.

As for the OP, the hand is not dead, the dealer is wrong, the floor should have been called. Dealers are not to make decisions in the box, and the floor is to be notified immediately if there is any irregularity in the game, no matter how mundane.

As already mentioned, the muck pile is not a "magic-dead-card-land", especially in this case as he did turn his cards face up. Also if the hand were dead in the dealer's eyes, then why deal the turn & river, rather than burying the hand immediately and pushing the pot to you? Sounds like the dealer needs a bit of retraining.

And from your follow-up post, the dealer is way out line. He shouldn't tell anyone what the floor would've ruled: the floor was never involved. Again, management should be notified as yet again it sounds like he needs retraining, on both basic game procedures and basic customer service.

If that is the case I'm going to get together a thick BR and sit a nose bleed game and start open shipping. If I win, I win perhaps millions, if I lose, **** it 86 me :P

of course your chips would be in the middle already, but in OP's scenario they were as well

Not all justice happens at the table.

I'll keep a shallow desert grave open for ya.

As a player for 10 yrs & a floor for 3, I've had only one incident where a player refused to pay off a called all-in at showdown. Needless to say, he was immediately escorted out and 86'd until the bet was paid. Kinda funny that he even argued that he didn't call the all in on a completely dry board with top two after opponent turned over a set. Scum will be scum and angle shooters will never quit.

That's fine unless the dealer decides to be a PITA (lol) and make the pot right before running it out. If it's still in "your stack" and hasn't gone into the middle, fine, you can take back your money and bounce out.

(Just don't worry about how often you can do this before you find yourself locked out of all the local pokerrooms. Also, hope that there's a large enough pool of players that you won't get a **** reputation and future villains INSIST the pot be made right before running it out.)

Good luck getting ANYTHING back if it's already in the pot. At that point, it technically belongs to the casino until it gets awarded to a winner (I'm guessing).

This is correct. When dealers get lazy bad things can happen.