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Tipping CONTAINMENT thread. Tipping CONTAINMENT thread.

07-12-2015 , 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I get it in the short run no savings, but in the long run there is. It could even be a restaurant is so popular that during busy times their dining room is full but they still have extra kitchen capacity. Then having delivery could become way more profitable than their dine in business, basically saving them staffing and even extra rent or building expansion costs.
Probably gonna regret posting in here.

Are you assuming that because profits go up the wages will go up? Some restaurants do that, most do not. A casino will never raise tipped position wages to match profits. They will pay the lowest they can get away with while retaining necessary staffing to maximize profits.

Management/owners will get bonuses when profit is up, the rest of the staff not so much.
Tipping CONTAINMENT thread. Quote
07-12-2015 , 02:09 AM
No, just saying that a restaurant may be able to offer delivery without incurring extra expenses; in fact their profit per meal may be greater than their profit for meal eaten in the restaraurant, so they wouldn't need to impose a delivery fee.

Of course none of this is neccesarily logical. Many banks still charge ATM fees, when their expenses for customers withdrawing that was are almost certainly less than if all those customers were going to the branch to make withdrawals in person. Many businesses will charge extra for things that can be seen as "modern conveniences", even if they don't entail extra expenses fronted by the business.
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07-12-2015 , 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam1chips
Dealers should not be able to play at the same casino they work at, IMO. It is just a bad look for both the casino and the employee.

When the dealer (a working employee) is dealing to a fellow, off-the-clock employee, doesn't that just give the appearance of poor game integrity and independence? I mean, in 99% of cases the actual game integrity would still be the same, but wouldn't it affect the appearance?

Not to mention what would happen when an off-the-clock dealer wins a big pot off of someone, and then is in the box dealing to them the next day (Land o Lakes, that is obviously a very reasonable attitude you had after losing a huge pot to an off-the-clock dealer, but many people that frequent casinos aren't exactly reasonable).

I don't know, I've only been to two casinos, but I thought it was standard practice that casinos weren't supposed to let their dealers play poker when they were off the clock?
I once got thrown out of a casino based on the events that ensued after I was in a pot with a dealer and a floor and after I folded they agreed to check it down.
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07-12-2015 , 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
No, just saying that a restaurant may be able to offer delivery without incurring extra expenses; in fact their profit per meal may be greater than their profit for meal eaten in the restaraurant, so they wouldn't need to impose a delivery fee.

Of course none of this is neccesarily logical. Many banks still charge ATM fees, when their expenses for customers withdrawing that was are almost certainly less than if all those customers were going to the branch to make withdrawals in person. Many businesses will charge extra for things that can be seen as "modern conveniences", even if they don't entail extra expenses fronted by the business.
Ahh okay, I think I understand now. I thought that this being the tipping thread you were talking about its effect on tips instead of the effects on the profits of the business.

Whether you're paying $1 delivery or $1 tip you're paying the same amount, but the end result for the business/employee is different. Which is what I thought you (and Rapini) were saying the opposite of, that because it costs you the same the employee is getting the same. My bad.
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07-12-2015 , 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guito
.

Whether you're paying $1 delivery or $1 tip you're paying the same amount, but the end result for the business/employee is different. Which is what I thought you (and Rapini) were saying the opposite of, that because it costs you the same the employee is getting the same. My bad.
You were dead on about Rapini.

He is saying that delivery charge == tip and that if he normally tipped $1, he would not tip if the restaurant added a $1 delivery charge.
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07-12-2015 , 03:52 AM
I'd like to clarify something about the MD live food delivery thing that I'm not sure about as this discussion sort of drifted off into other businesses and their deliveries.

At MD live, who actually gets and delivers the food to the poker player? Is it a person who works for the restaurant who otherwise would not show up in the poker room, or is it a waitress that normally works the poker room delivering drinks? And are the restaurants located closeby, inside the casino building? Or is someone driving from an outside location?

Thanks.
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07-12-2015 , 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle
You were dead on about Rapini.

He is saying that delivery charge == tip and that if he normally tipped $1, he would not tip if the restaurant added a $1 delivery charge.
Okay so the question becomes should the restaurant be more profitable at the expense of the tipped employee (while you pay the same price) right?
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07-12-2015 , 04:11 AM
As far as delivery charges vs tips in general goes, I look at it this way. If I know, or reasonably believe, that the delivery charge does not go into the pay of the person bringing me the food, I will continue to tip as I always have done. For example, PapaJohns Pizza states on their website that the delivery fee is not a gratuity and does not go to the driver. So I continue to tip the driver the same as I did before the delivery fee started.

Now, I will reassess whether I still want to order delivery from PapaJohns because of the new delivery charge. The convenience of it all may make it worth it; or I may say **** those guys, they're just trying to rip me off. But I won't make the delivery driver, the bottom person on the totem pole, the one who directly finacially suffers the consequences of this management decision.

I remember when some poker rooms raised their jackpot rakes from $1 to $2, some posters said that they were going to severely cut down on their dealer tipping because of it. They felt that they couldn't absorb another dollar increase in an already tight profit margin in their 1/2nl game. But others said that's not fair, as the dealers don't get any of that additional dollar. And the posters replied, too bad. I have to make up that additional cost somewhere. Likewise if a poker room raised the rake from max $4 to Max $5, and the dealers pay remained the same, I wouldn't stop tipping dealers to offset the cost. I would reevaluate if I wanted to keep playing in that game.

So my determining factor is whether or not the additional fee goes to the person I was tipping before the fee. In most cases I think it doesn't, so I won't penalize them for the new fees. Instead, I will decide whether or not I am willing to pay the increased price for whatever service it is I'm buying. But to punish the lowest paid person in the chain doesn't seem right to me.
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07-12-2015 , 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoponpop
I once got thrown out of a casino based on the events that ensued after I was in a pot with a dealer and a floor and after I folded they agreed to check it down.
"Bad casinos are bad" is not really a counterargument. It works out fine in legitimate rooms.

(The perception of impropriety is another part of the discussion, but you're talking about what actually happened.)
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07-12-2015 , 10:52 AM
A friend of mine runs a pizza shop. He charges $1.50 delivery. Here is the breakdown.

Driver's get
$2.50/hr
$1.00 of the delivery charge.

Maybe, if it's busy and the driver is lucky he can make at the MOST 4 deliveries per hour. That gets him up to $6.50 an hour. He's also going to burn a gallon of gas in that hour. So now he's back down to $3.00 an hour without considering the wear and tear on his car. If you regularly order delivery from a place so that the drivers know you, and tip $1 or less every time, expect your order to come with extra saliva because it's costing the driver money to bring you your food.
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07-12-2015 , 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle
You were dead on about Rapini.

He is saying that delivery charge == tip and that if he normally tipped $1, he would not tip if the restaurant added a $1 delivery charge.
That's correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guito
Okay so the question becomes should the restaurant be more profitable at the expense of the tipped employee (while you pay the same price) right?
That's up to the restaurant; I don't want to get involved in their business decisions.
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07-12-2015 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browser2920
<snip>
That post all makes sense to me. If a poker room raised rake, I don't think I'd take it out on the dealers. I could imagine a scenario where if I were a professional player in a place like Australia where there's only one legal room in my entire state/territory and I had no choice in where I played I MIGHT switch over to the camp that would tip less as rake went up.

But the reality around me is there's two casino poker rooms (with a third on the way next year) and plenty of home/underground games to choose from, so the competition helps to keep things reasonable for players. Similarly, there's plenty of pizza places to order from, so I don't have to order Papa John's (thank god).
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07-12-2015 , 01:12 PM
When the casinos in AC started taking BBJ drop, I did reduce my tipping for awhile, but eventually went back to normal.
Dealers actually do get some of that though, as they normally get tipped on BBJs and other promotions when they are hit.
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07-12-2015 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromACtoLV
A friend of mine runs a pizza shop. He charges $1.50 delivery. Here is the breakdown.

Driver's get
$2.50/hr
$1.00 of the delivery charge.

Maybe, if it's busy and the driver is lucky he can make at the MOST 4 deliveries per hour. That gets him up to $6.50 an hour. He's also going to burn a gallon of gas in that hour. So now he's back down to $3.00 an hour without considering the wear and tear on his car. If you regularly order delivery from a place so that the drivers know you, and tip $1 or less every time, expect your order to come with extra saliva because it's costing the driver money to bring you your food.
I have to ask how its possible that a delivery driver can only make 4 deliveries an hour at best when its busy? Does you friend have a ton of drivers and only lets them take 1 at a time? Or do they have such a vast delivery area that it just takes that long? I know our guys would make upwards of 25-30 deliveries each in a 4 hour span on a Friday night and we had 4 drivers going. Now I will say my first pizza shop was a bit of an outlier and we did probably 75% delivery as opposed to most smaller stores in the NJ area that do closer to 50/50.
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07-12-2015 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromACtoLV
A friend of mine runs a pizza shop. He charges $1.50 delivery. Here is the breakdown.

Driver's get
$2.50/hr
$1.00 of the delivery charge.

Maybe, if it's busy and the driver is lucky he can make at the MOST 4 deliveries per hour. That gets him up to $6.50 an hour. He's also going to burn a gallon of gas in that hour. So now he's back down to $3.00 an hour without considering the wear and tear on his car. If you regularly order delivery from a place so that the drivers know you, and tip $1 or less every time, expect your order to come with extra saliva because it's costing the driver money to bring you your food.
Your friend sounds like an irresponsible business owner and I definitely believe you that anyone who would work for him voluntarily under that compensation setup would risk fines and jail time to mess with a customer.
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07-12-2015 , 02:17 PM
I work as a delivery driver in a pizza place. Here's how it works at my store. They charge $2 for delivery. We get 90¢ reimbursement per delivery, as far as 14 miles round trip. Reimbursement existed long before the introduction of the delivery charge, it in no way affects what the pizza place pays their drivers.

I am lucky enough to work at a place that still pays minimum wage while on deliveries, most do not. $3-6 an hour is becoming standard while on runs due to "tip credit." Often times if a customer doesn't tip, we end up making less than minimum wage after what we spend on gas, not to mention wear and tear on our cars.

None of this really matters in the end tho. Someone saying "Oh they charge me $2 now? I'm not tipping the driver" isn't someone "taking a stand" it's just someone's excuse to be cheap. You spend $20 on a pizza delivery and you're too cheap to throw $3 to the person that used their own vehicle to bring it to you? Then go pick it up. If you think you would drive to someone's house to drop something off and they paid you 90¢ gas money to do it and you'd be ok with that, then you're only fooling yourself
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07-12-2015 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy89
I work as a delivery driver in a pizza place. Here's how it works at my store. They charge $2 for delivery. We get 90¢ reimbursement per delivery, as far as 14 miles round trip. Reimbursement existed long before the introduction of the delivery charge, it in no way affects what the pizza place pays their drivers.

I am lucky enough to work at a place that still pays minimum wage while on deliveries, most do not. $3-6 an hour is becoming standard while on runs due to "tip credit." Often times if a customer doesn't tip, we end up making less than minimum wage after what we spend on gas, not to mention wear and tear on our cars.

None of this really matters in the end tho. Someone saying "Oh they charge me $2 now? I'm not tipping the driver" isn't someone "taking a stand" it's just someone's excuse to be cheap. You spend $20 on a pizza delivery and you're too cheap to throw $3 to the person that used their own vehicle to bring it to you? Then go pick it up. If you think you would drive to someone's house to drop something off and they paid you 90¢ gas money to do it and you'd be ok with that, then you're only fooling yourself
I must live in a bubble sometimes; I had no idea that delivery drivers used their own vehicles for this stuff. Well, thank goodness I would never tip anyone less than $5; not that I get take out food very often, but still; whenever I do, it's always such a nice convenience to not have to put on pants and drive.

The way I see it: when I order take out, I know full-well going in that my pizza or my chinese food is going to be an additional $5-$15. Do I want to spend that additional money? Well, if I feel like being lazy, then yes. Yes I do. (Just don't bring me cold food, that's all I ask).
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07-12-2015 , 07:11 PM
$2/5 nlhe at Parx

The dealer pushed me the pot after I took it down with a 3bet. Since my stack nor the pushed pot had any $1 chips, I asked the dealer to chop up a $2 chip for me. After I slid the $2 chip, he tossed me a $1 chip and just placed the other $1 chip right into his tip box. I thought this was strange but didn't think anything of it. Maybe he thought I meant/heard me say something else.

I decided to keep this in mind the next time a pot would be pushed to me. Again, I slid the $2 chip and distinctly asked "May you chop up this chip for me?" He took it, tossed me a $1, and did some alley-oop looking maneuver with the other $1 chip into his tip box.

I've never seen this assumption carried out before. I don't know this dealer and inversely this dealer doesn't know me. Even Borg dealers whom I'm quite friendly with, they would never do this. To me, the heart of it has nothing to do with $1. I was just taken back by how presumptuous this dealer was. I didn't see him do this to anyone else but maybe they tipped with $1 chips.

Would you guys perceive this action like I did? Just wondering if you would've done what I ended up doing.
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07-12-2015 , 07:18 PM
Given the context, the natural assumption would be that you intended to tip a buck. Not a big deal, but yeah, he should probably have tossed the two chips back.
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07-12-2015 , 07:23 PM
To me, "chop it", especially at a time when I would be tipping, means "Take $1 for yourself and give me the rest"


YMMV.
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07-12-2015 , 07:25 PM
i've never seen this before but i understand how the dealer thought it was a tip. next time just be more clear?
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07-12-2015 , 07:28 PM
Meh, a lot of dealers do this but the smart ones don't.
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07-12-2015 , 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl654
I was just taken back by how presumptuous this dealer was.
I may be presumptious but is it really an unreasonable presumption? At the point where a player typically gives you a tip they ask you to chop a $2 chip ... is it really unreasonable to assume they intended 1 for you and 1 change? And the second time its even more reasonable to presume this since you seemed ok with it the first time.

That being said i always give them both chips back rather than just take one.
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07-12-2015 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Beale
Meh, a lot of dealers do this but the smart ones don't.
Agreed.

Even when it obvious, like they throw me a $5 and say "give me $4 back", I throw them all $5 in white for camera purposes.
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07-12-2015 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psandman
I may be presumptious but is it really an unreasonable presumption? At the point where a player typically gives you a tip they ask you to chop a $2 chip ... is it really unreasonable to assume they intended 1 for you and 1 change? And the second time its even more reasonable to presume this since you seemed ok with it the first time.

That being said i always give them both chips back rather than just take one.
agreed, i end up tipping the same way and have felt it reasonable to assume the chop it splitting the $2 in this case. usually better for a dealer who doesn't know you to toss both $1s to you and thank you when one is returned, though no real problem with his actions.
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