Again I say you not to anyone specifically, but you dealers as a whole. So no, it's actually not entirely safe for dealers to complain anonymously about cheapness here because it has resulted in a reduction from the players tipping pool.
Yes, I understand your point now, just as I understood it the first time you made it.
Nearly everyone in any line of work feels that they are underpaid and wants to make more money than they're making. This is true of tv and movie stars, and professional athletes who make millions and want more. It's also true of poker dealers who make considerably less. And it's also true of any other profession you can think of, including your own profession, Lester (or your former profession if you're retired).
So what you're saying now is that you were under the delusion that poker dealers are just as happy with a $1 tip but a $5 tip, or just as happy with no tip as a $1 tip. When I deal a $2000 pot at a 2-5 NL table, my experience has taught me that I'll usually get at least $5. It's not uncommon for me to get $10 or more. So, yeah, I'm disappointed when I get $1. Especially when a good tipping reg was in the hand and I know I was looking at $10 or more if he'd won the pot.
Does that make me hate the $1 tipper? Not necessarily. Does that make him a cheapskate? Again, not necessarily. But I'm accustomed to a certain amount in various circumstances, and I got less than I normally would have.
I'm not talking about what I deserve or what I'm entitled to. That topic and line of reasoning has been beat into the ground in this thread. What I'm talking about is an expectation I have based on past experience. And in this instance the result doesn't live up to the expectation.
I can't imagine that my sharing this with you would come as a huge revelation to you. Maybe you just never thought about it before.
Or maybe it's like another poster said, and you're just looking for a reason to not tip the dealers in your room (the vast majority of whom have never posted on 2+2).
But don't hang it on me and the other dealers ITT for being honest and open about how we feel. We're greedy? Everyone's greedy. Tell me something I don't know.
--> the dealer does not acknowledge a tip I've given him/her;
--> the dealer screws up while chatting it up with regulars or otherwise not paying attention to the action; or
--> the dealer does something unprofessional that kills the mood/action at the table.
However, I'll tip even when I don't win a pot for...
--> going above and beyond the call of duty when handling difficult players who are fish; or
--> having a very strong down in which the dealer dealt quickly and accurately with no (or maybe one or two inconsequential) errors.
The bolded has happened to me several times at Delaware Park with a few of the younger male dealers who are always chatting it up with their friends at the table. No tips for them in the future, that's my biggest annoyance with dealers. If they cost me money then I'm going to cost them money. I'm okay with dealers talking during the hand, but when it starts to affect the outcomes/action of hands then it becomes a problem.
Whether I like the dealer or not, as long as they deal correctly I will give them $1 per pot where I win more than $100. Occasionally, I'll tip $2 on big pots if they are really good and have been keeping the game moving well.
Yes, I understand your point now, just as I understood it the first time you made it.
Nearly everyone in any line of work feels that they are underpaid and wants to make more money than they're making. This is true of tv and movie stars, and professional athletes who make millions and want more. It's also true of poker dealers who make considerably less. And it's also true of any other profession you can think of, including your own profession, Lester (or your former profession if you're retired).
So what you're saying now is that you were under the delusion that poker dealers are just as happy with a $1 tip but a $5 tip, or just as happy with no tip as a $1 tip. When I deal a $2000 pot at a 2-5 NL table, my experience has taught me that I'll usually get at least $5. It's not uncommon for me to get $10 or more. So, yeah, I'm disappointed when I get $1. Especially when a good tipping reg was in the hand and I know I was looking at $10 or more if he'd won the pot.
Does that make me hate the $1 tipper? Not necessarily. Does that make him a cheapskate? Again, not necessarily. But I'm accustomed to a certain amount in various circumstances, and I got less than I normally would have.
I'm not talking about what I deserve or what I'm entitled to. That topic and line of reasoning has been beat into the ground in this thread. What I'm talking about is an expectation I have based on past experience. And in this instance the result doesn't live up to the expectation.
I can't imagine that my sharing this with you would come as a huge revelation to you. Maybe you just never thought about it before.
Or maybe it's like another poster said, and you're just looking for a reason to not tip the dealers in your room (the vast majority of whom have never posted on 2+2).
But don't hang it on me and the other dealers ITT for being honest and open about how we feel. We're greedy? Everyone's greedy. Tell me something I don't know.
A misinterpretation of my point is not an understanding. You can't just simply say "I'm thankful for any tips I receive"? As a player that is my expectation from a dealer. No comparisons, no implications, no animosity.
A misinterpretation of my point is not an understanding. You can't just simply say "I'm thankful for any tips I receive"? As a player that is my expectation from a dealer. No comparisons, no implications, no animosity.
I understand your point entirely. I promise.
On the floor I'm expected to act professional, and even if I wasn't expected to, I would still behave myself professionally. That means treating every player with courtesy, being polite, and showing gratitude for every tip I receive.
If you're at my table and act pleasantly and don't disrupt the game, I promise we'll never have a problem with each other. If you find it in your heart to throw me a buck for my efforts, I'll tap the bank with it and give you my thanks.
Here on a forum, I'm going to tell you what I really think and I'll share things with you that I wouldn't say at the table. Isn't that at least part of the reason we have these threads?
And it should go without saying that I don't speak for any other dealer. Not the other dealers who post online, not the ones who work at my casino and have never heard of 2+2, and certainly not the dealers who work in your casino and might have opinions all their own that differ entirely from mine.
Actually, no, you should have kept it to the breakroom only. There's more than enough tipping complaints from dealers that I've read here to convince me to tip significantly less.
I see Lester, that you and bolt are having quite a back and forth. I must say when I saw this post I interpreted it as an excuse/justification for lowering your tips as well.
Also as a player, I appreciate the candidness that bolt is willing to give us on this anonymous forum.
Well you're right if the interpretation is a reason to reduce tips. However, it seems like the cause is what's misunderstood. While I always thought I was an adequate tipper I would have continued along that way. Ignorance is bliss. Upon reading this thread I conclude that dealers would perceive me as cheap. That's certainly not going to have me tip more, rather I will tip less knowing I wasn't entirely appreciated.
A misinterpretation of my point is not an understanding. You can't just simply say "I'm thankful for any tips I receive"? As a player that is my expectation from a dealer. No comparisons, no implications, no animosity.
I once recieved a Christmas bonus from a job which came to $36 and change after taxes. Another time at another job I recieved a raise which after taxes came to about $8 per bi-weekly paycheck, far less than a standard cost of living increase.
It is not uncommon in these situations to be somewhat resentful that the bonus or raise was below expectations. Not many people will look to an almost insignificant financial reward and just appreciate what they got.
These happened in non-casino, non-tipped jobs that I have had. I am sure many people have similar stories as well.
I, for one, wouldn't tell someone who after working for a company that was doing well for two years that they should appreciate that 1% raise. I have no problem if that person doesn't just appreciate that barely noticable pay hike, if it actually bums them out a little bit.
I once recieved a Christmas bonus from a job which came to $36 and change after taxes. Another time at another job I recieved a raise which after taxes came to about $8 per bi-weekly paycheck, far less than a standard cost of living increase.
It is not uncommon in these situations to be somewhat resentful that the bonus or raise was below expectations. Not many people will look to an almost insignificant financial reward and just appreciate what they got.
I think most people view raises and holiday bonuses differently than you do. I think most wouldn't be resentful. You sound like just because it's Christmas and you're going to spend a bunch of money on gifts, that your employer should give you a huge bonus.
I think most people view raises and holiday bonuses differently than you do. I think most wouldn't be resentful. You sound like just because it's Christmas and you're going to spend a bunch of money on gifts, that your employer should give you a huge bonus.
Let's be fair. He said somewhat resentful which is, by definition, less than resentful.
Would the post bother your sensibilities less if he had said he was disappointed that the bonus was smaller than he'd been hoping for?
I think most people view raises and holiday bonuses differently than you do. I think most wouldn't be resentful. You sound like just because it's Christmas and you're going to spend a bunch of money on gifts, that your employer should give you a huge bonus.
I don't think that most people view them any differently than I do and you are conveniently ignoring the raise issue that I brought up.
There have been employees at jobs for as long as there has been jobs who recieved raises they were dissapointed with, that there was an expectation of more which mitigated whatever extra money they recieved.
I don't think that most people view them any differently than I do and you are conveniently ignoring the raise issue that I brought up.
There have been employees at jobs for as long as there has been jobs who recieved raises they were dissapointed with, that there was an expectation of more which mitigated whatever extra money they recieved.
Do you deny this?
Wouldn't deny that, but it's irrelevant nonetheless. Comparisons to other tipping models and other jobs don't fly. Poker players are not employers and have no obligations to tip. So if / when they do tip it should be fully appreciated. Besides, there's a balance. You get over tippers, avg tippers, small tippers, and non tippers. Expectations of more from the latter three would more likely encourage them to give less.
Wouldn't deny that, but it's irrelevant nonetheless.
It is completely relevent. It is exactly about the expectation of an increase in wages.
Just because you don't like that dealers have expectations for larger tips when they push a big pot doesn't mean those expectations are not there - but even more importantly, it doesn't mean those expectations are unfounded.
You use the word obligation but it's a strawman since nobody said that tipping was an obligation and also no non-unionized, non-contract employee has an obligation to recieve a raise of any kind, let alone dictate the amount. Yet, you agree full well that a low raise can be seen as an insult. What's the difference again?
It is completely relevent. It is exactly about the expectation of an increase in wages.
Just because you don't like that dealers have expectations for larger tips when they push a big pot doesn't mean those expectations are not there - but even more importantly, it doesn't mean those expectations are unfounded.
You use the word obligation but it's a strawman since nobody said that tipping was an obligation and also no non-unionized, non-contract employee has an obligation to recieve a raise of any kind, let alone dictate the amount. Yet, you agree full well that a low raise can be seen as an insult. What's the difference again?
A strawman? Wow, too often when dealers attempt to be funny they aren't (dealer's not exclusive). I took this as an attempt to be serious, but it made me laugh. Yeah, nobody said tipping was an obligation including me. Maybe I'm the only poker player (or dealer) who finds comparing the pay of a poker dealer to other professions irrelevant, but I doubt it. It's irrelevant to me because no other paying jobs whatsoever influence how I decide to tip. What I don't deny is the disappointment in receiving less than expected, that's natural. It's the expectations that are too often unrealistic that only set up for disappointment. As for dealing (what's relevant here), just because some players tip bigger on bigger pots it's unrealistic to expect everyone (unfounded) to as if it's routine. Hate to be repetitive, though it's been claimed as understood, the responses suggest otherwise: why can't all dealers simply say "I'm thankful for all tips I receive"?
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