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Surprised by 2 things at Mohegan Sun Surprised by 2 things at Mohegan Sun

11-20-2014 , 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combo-Prof
Well anyway it has been my experience that the culprit must either complete the call or forfeit and fold. Never have I seen it required that he complete the call.
What, is he going to pick his tourney chips up and leave? It's pretty easy to enforce this rule. You're thinking of cash games.
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11-20-2014 , 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa
What, is he going to pick his tourney chips up and leave? It's pretty easy to enforce this rule. You're thinking of cash games.
Yes I am thinking cash games.
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11-21-2014 , 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combo-Prof
Except if the player refuses to put more into the pot to complete the call, then he must fold and sacrifice the inadequate amount of chips he put in. What else could be enforced? So it is at most a call and at least a sacrifice. There may be a requirement that the player complete the call in a tournament or receive a penalty, but in cash game I doubt it.
I have never seen a player in a cash game allowed to forfeit the inadequate chips and fold (barring "gross misunderstanding" situations.)
I have always seen players required to complete the call. I have occasionally seen players refuse to do this. This will (or should) at least get them ejected and banned, or possibly prosecuted in some states (Nevada).
In the most recent one I witnessed, a player called with one chip, saw the other guy had him beat, then refused to complete the call (roughly $400). He picked up his chips and left, with floors and security trailing. An hour later the state police walked into the room with management and gave the bettor the amount of his call; apparently they had detained Villain and threatened him with arrest and prosecution.
This is how it can be enforced in cash games (today - in the old days he might have had it beaten out of him).
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11-21-2014 , 05:27 PM
Thats a different situation. In the cash game experience I am talking about: Pre flop say, Player A raises. Player B (asleep at the wheel) puts out the BB oblivious to the raise. He does not see players A cards. The action is still on B, and the dealer tells him it is X more to call. B says "I did not see the raise" and mucks his hand. The BB he has put into the pot stays in the pot. Action continues on to player C. Its a simple mistake by B that players often make.

So I guess I am talking about a "gross misunderstanding" albeit a frequent one caused by players not paying attention.
Not an angle and not a decline of payment.

If B tosses in a chip and A turns over his cards, then of course B must complete the call (or be taken to the parking lot).
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11-22-2014 , 01:32 AM
I have two issues here. One, the stipulation that allows a player to fold and forfeit the chip(s) placed into a pot. Angle shooters will be happy. Secondly, and the most important issue imo, is the floor man not giving an answer and saying you will have to wait until it happens. Sure, I understand every situation is different, but there are procedures in place to guide one througb a given situation. Either the floor was clueless and didnt want to look like a moran, or he didnt explain why he wouldnt provide a sound answer. Either way, further inquiry into the house rules, right then and there, would have been necessary imo. If that didnt satisfy you, that a fair game was being offered that is, and not an off the cuff ruling/game was being played, then a call to your gaming control representative would have solved it.
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11-22-2014 , 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combo-Prof
....So I guess I am talking about a "gross misunderstanding" albeit a frequent one caused by players not paying attention.
Not an angle and not a decline of payment.....
OK. I thought you were talking about a one-chip call and refusal to pay up. (Post #17)

FWIW, if "Gross Misunderstanding" is allowed, in RRoP and historically, player was allowed to retrieve his erroneous bet with all options open, not to forfeit it. Apparently some modern rooms are requiring that the bet be forfeited if player folds, as a penalty for not paying attention.

Last edited by MJ88; 11-22-2014 at 08:06 AM.
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11-24-2014 , 12:23 PM
I talked with 2 Floors at MS yesterday (one of whom had participated in the original discussion) and I found out the following:
- They do use TDA rules for the most part
- In this case they follow TDA rules (specifically 37 as cited above) so that HU when facing a bet, a single chip thrown in is always a call.
- When facing a raise in a multi-way pot, chips thrown in do not always mean a call if in the eyes of the Floor they were thrown in with the intention of calling the original bet (this is also supported by TDA Rule 37) - but the chips have to stay in the pot
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11-24-2014 , 06:04 PM
Semi-relevant WSOP video.
-Henry Van Tran stalling / putting in less chips than the amount needed, and then trying to take it back.

Skip to 6:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJzSkB3VQSo
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11-24-2014 , 06:17 PM
^^^ Thank you!
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11-24-2014 , 07:56 PM
How did you computer the #t=414 ?
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11-24-2014 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combo-Prof
How did you computer the #t=414 ?
The value is in seconds, but you can right-click anywhere on the video track and click "Get video URL at current time".
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11-25-2014 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by albedoa
The value is in seconds, but you can right-click anywhere on the video track and click "Get video URL at current time".
Cool. Didn't know that. Even works. Two finger tap on the mac BTW.
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