Someone Explain the IWTSTH Controversy please! - Page 2 - Poker Card Room

makesevenac · 06-07-2010, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetack

To those who say people get upset because its a violation of etiquette, you have to realize that's absurd. People who have no problem berating the dealer or other players, talking about a hand in progress, answering the phone at the table, showing their cards to just their neighbor, groaning about how the flop would have hit their folded hand, talking about checking a hand down with a third player all-in in the pot, forgetting to shower for weeks at a time, etc etc etc, still get upset when asked to show their hand.

Sure it has something to do with human nature. But it has nothing to do with being a violation of some ephemeral code of conduct that huge numbers of players don't respect to begin with.

Really makes no difference, I consider people trash for doing any of those
as well.

mn_trader · 06-07-2010, 10:53 AM

I dont get upset, but I ask them to just ask me instead of asking the dealer. If you want to know, just ask, and I will show.

There is no need to enforce some IWTSTH rule, cant we all just be polite gentlemen?

pfapfap · 06-07-2010, 12:44 PM

Yes, streamraise, but it usually seems to be a controversy when a player accustomed to instant hand histories insists on it. I'm answering the controversy question, not the rudeness question.

DonkeyChip · 06-07-2010, 03:15 PM

Most times if it's just one request people don't get PO'd about it. It's when a person continually does it and it's obv why they are doing it.

Question for dealers: At what limits does IWTSTH usually occur? Is it usually at/above/below a certain limit? The answer to that question might tell you something.

**xbeatax** · 06-07-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickMPK

It is rude for the same reason that slow rolling is rude...don't pour salt in the wounds of losing players!

exactly this

Dealer-Guy · 06-07-2010, 11:52 PM

I had two different players get upset by another players request to see their hads. It was the same player but it wasn't based on IWTSTH, in bo0th cases the player asked to see hands these optehr players had shown to their neighbors.

SOSA is so much more understandable, no one should be getting upset about that yet two players were obviously offended by the simple reguest to show the table what they had shown the guy to their left or right.

DonkeyChip · 06-08-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dealer-Guy

I had two different players get upset by another players request to see their hads. It was the same player but it wasn't based on IWTSTH, in bo0th cases the player asked to see hands these optehr players had shown to their neighbors.

SOSA is so much more understandable, no one should be getting upset about that yet two players were obviously offended by the simple reguest to show the table what they had shown the guy to their left or right.

I wish dealers would just flip the hand over when it's been shown to another player. I don't think anybody should have to ask.

MJ88 · 06-08-2010, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn_trader

.....cant we all just be polite gentlemen?

If only....

Al_Capone_Junior · 06-08-2010, 08:59 AM

Morons + idiots + IWTSTH = COLOSSAL STUPIDITY BEYOND BELIEF.

There, it's been 'splained. End of thread.

lawdude · 06-08-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyChip

I wish dealers would just flip the hand over when it's been shown to another player. I don't think anybody should have to ask.

The one time I really got involved in any conflict playing 15/30 at hollywood park (which is generally one of the nicest tables in town) was when a player bet me and another player out of a hand when I had top pair and the turn action went bet, raise, re-raise, fold (me), fold. The winner then showed his hand to his neighbor and giggled, and I asked for SOSA. He then turbo-mucked and accused me of bad form.

I normally NEVER invoke IWTSTH or SOSA. But the guy's giggling tilted me.

**The Palimax** · 06-08-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppState'03

IMO it's because usually the people asking aren't asking for the right reason and it's poor etiquette. The rule is in place to prevent collusion not to see if your particular guess was correct.

*sigh*

All hands being public information at showdown has included information as a reason since at least the 1890's.

Please stop repeating ill-informed nonsense.

**The Palimax** · 06-08-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfapfap

Yes, streamraise, but it usually seems to be a controversy when a player accustomed to instant hand histories insists on it. I'm answering the controversy question, not the rudeness question.

IWTSTH was a rule on the books by at least the 50's and 60's. Players have been asked to show their hands for a long time, and people had reactions to it ranging from joy to anger long before the internet.

StevieG · 06-08-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

My question:

I would simply like to know why such a simple request, one that has been on virtually all rule books for as long as most of us can remember, is available online, never gets debated online, doesn't slow or affect the game if everyone follows it - Why do people get so butt hurt when this occurs?

The rule exists for good reason, and a player may be entitled to the information.

But when invoking it results in embarrassing fish, and has even a small chance of dissuading them from taking their hopes and prayers to the river, it is best to forego its use.

Online doesn't really have that problem. No one knows you just requested the hand history unless you blab about it in chat. And that could very well result in some debate or slow down the game or simply provoke fish into leaving.

JasonInDallas · 06-08-2010, 04:01 PM

Not knowing why a certain thing offends someone doesn't make it any less offensive.

**The Palimax** · 06-08-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonInDallas

Not knowing why a certain thing offends someone doesn't make it any less offensive.

Cue the images of Mohammad..